You are standing in a room…lights dim…a band takes the stage and starts to play, sending shivers down your spine. You listen carefully, drink in the atmosphere, close your eyes, let yourself get soaked by the mood the musicians fill the place with, feel each change in the melody and when they finish playing, you stand in awe. Then the drummer, a tall guy with a nose ring and green hair asks you for your feedback…you swallow, think, then say: “Play it again…”
This time you listen in a different way. You try to understand the piece, to decode the key they’re playing in..there is an off-beat part and now they change keys…huh..works well…but maybe…if they were using some approach notes just before entering into the chorus again..? or where they play the Cmaj7 they could go with the e flat pentatonic scale..yes, that could work and it wouldn’t change the mood nor tamper with the style & idea of the piece…or would it..? You listen even more carefully because by now you have adapted to the players voice and want to help them strengthen their own sound not bringing yours in.
When they finish playing, you grab a coke, walk over to the band, sit next to the drummer and tell him what you think..in all humbleness. He will take notes. Maybe he likes what you tell him or maybe not…however when you leave, both of you have learned something.
I’m a musician and I love improvising – and improvising is a lot about capturing the mood of a piece first before you start to play it yourself. If you try to just play your own thing, you will mess a song up. Critiquing poetry for me is much like this. So when we give feedback, try to…
- be sensitive
- understand what the poet wants to say
- drink in the mood
- analyze the key & the style of poem and poet
- help to strengthen the weaker parts and underline the strong parts, not more, not less
- don’t suggest drastic changes – changing a piece from blues to rock n’roll is for experts
- analyze very carefully before you bring your suggestions
- be honest
- respect the poet
- be humble
For the last five weeks, we have focused on giving feedback and critique on OPP, other people’s poetry, for those of you that thought I was about to break into the Naughty by Nature song. (Psst Claudia, do you think they can tell that it’s not you talking any more? Smiles). The point we are trying to make is that you have to remember it is Other People’s poetry and not your own. The goal is not for all of us to sound the same. How boring would that be?
Yesterday, Joe talked about the alone-ness one can feel as a poet. I (Brian) believe that we were not meant to live life alone and by extension we are not meant to write in a vacuum as well. Quality feedback has propelled my writing to places I never would have dreamed.
Let me let you in on a little secret. Every week, Claudia and I share our OLN posts with each other prior to posting. Usually by the end of the weekend we send them to each other, to give time for them to be read and picked over as well as us to rewrite or polish as needed. I trust her because I know she is following the guidelines she shared above and we are humble enough to know we may not always follow the feedback. It is OPP after all.
All that being said, today we want to give you another opportunity to give each other a little feedback. If you put a poem into Mr. Linky, the expectation is that you will follow the above guidelines and give quality critique on two poems, the one before you and the one after you. If you can do that, you are free to enter a poem, if not, we have a wonderful Poetics prompt coming on Saturday.
Have at it Poets!
brian miller said:
Welcome to Meeting the Bar everyone! Hope you are having a great day and look forward to seeing what you have for us today.
With Claudia still out of town on business I am tending the pub.
For mine, I am serving up yesterdays poem, hopefully the leftovers are stillin prime condition…smiles.
zongrik said:
I put up something I had put up on onestop earlier this year. Thanks in advance for your comments.
tashtoo said:
Brian! You’re forcing me to actually offer crit for REAL!!!!? Oh my…This is so tough for me. Good or bad, I feel very ‘abrasive’ when playing with another’s words…if that makes sense. I have this HUGE fear of offending, which, mind you, at times even hinders my own writing…Claudia…you have provided me some of the best crit EVER, and I would love to be able to mimic your voice, (lest we forget the villanelle!) I do have my own I would love to get some feedback on, so I’m taking you up on the offer. (She turns back to her blog…shaking in fear!)
CC Champagne said:
No need at all to fear, Tash! CC’s here! *big smile* I won’t get around to finishing this until the morning, but please know I haven’t forgotten you, OK? And I really like the poem.
brian said:
haha you will be alright Tash…give it a try…promise we will still love you on the other side…smiles.
CC Champagne said:
Your blog won’t let me post my critique in the comment section (it probably doesn’t like champagne)!!! *sob, sob, sob* And I was being nice (I think) too!!!
So I will post it here… *eek* And, as you have said yourself, these thoughts are merely suggestions that may help you see your piece through different eyes…
I really like the title as it leaves me guessing where you are going with this and why you feel see-through. I immediately expect this to be a poem of emotion, of loneliness of some kind. Emotional poems are my favourite (huge surprise?), and you don’t disappoint with this beautiful, heartfelt poem.
The first stanza is brilliant (especially the first few words, as they evoke many powerful feelings in me) and the first two stanzas flow well for me. When I get to the ‘you’ person I have to admit to being slightly confused at the first read-through. Who is this you? I think it might be the ‘barriers to your prying eyes’ that doesn’t quite sound on key… It might be that my language skills are lacking, but I think another preposition would be better suited, perhaps ‘from’?
Anyway, I’m not here to nit-pick words, just making suggestions and because of the structure of the piece I had to re-read it several times before I could identify the ‘combatants’. This is not a bad thing in any way, and it does make the reader have to pay attention to what they read rather than just skim, however a suggestion might be (and this is something I’ve seen Luke do a few times or I wouldn’t have thought of it) to add an additional version with traditional sentences and punctuation as an alternative…
In the second to last stanza (I love the word stanza) the two words ‘random condition’ feel un-linked to the rest of the flow somehow. I understand they mean that the ‘you’ person has demanded full transparency, but in that stanza I feel a confusion that has nothing to do with the emotions coming from the poem. I wish you would explain more, somehow (at that particular point in the poem) as I feel that would help me fully enjoy your words.
I’m also wondering, and it is just a thought, if perhaps the ‘walls of slivered glass’ should mirror the initial ‘pane of glass’ from the first stanza?
Oh, I don’t know, what do I know about critiquing?! I really like this piece, Tash, and I hope you don’t feel violated by this attempt at critiquing something that is obviously deeply personal. No emotions are ever wrong, the same way no poetry is ever wrong. All we can ever do is try to improve the poetry and let it reflect the emotions. I think this is a really good example of just that.
Art & Soul, Ink (@soulwrites) said:
In keeping with the music theme, I put one up that has a hip-hop tone to it that I wrote recently. I’ve never done any real critiquing, so I thought I would enter this as my first real attempt at diving completely into another writer’s art. Thank you for the introduction into this event. It was very well written and concise.
brian said:
nice….love me some hip hop…so looking forward to coming by here in just a bit….
Sheila Moore said:
oh, great idea to set up the parameters of critiquing the poem linked before and after yours. Takes the pressure off of having to skim through a bunch without taking the time needed to give QUALITY feedback…because it does take time to process and reflect. I recently reviewed a chapbook by a fellow writer and it took me reading it at least six times over the course of an entire month before I felt prepared to give a proper, accurate, and fair review. Stellar ideas as always, Brian and Claudia. I am excited to pariticipate in this today.
Art & Soul, Ink (@soulwrites) said:
I hope mine is not too long…
Laurie Kolp said:
I’m jealous that the two of you get to work on the prompt before the rest of us… I guess that’s the privelage of being the moderators!
CC Champagne said:
OK, I’ve been lurking in the corner, nursing my spritzer and not quite daring to join in the party at these little get-togethers for a while now… *deep breath* Not only am I scared of having my work properly critiqued, but I am also scared of being too intense in my own critique… However, I am feeling balanced tonight, I feel I’ve been doing a good job over the past few days and I am really curious about this… So here goes! I have entered an old one (and it is long, I know so sorry about that). I am looking forward to reading and commenting on others too (I promise I will remember about OPP). But first another spritzer for the road!
Great initiative, and if I haven’t said so before, I am really impressed with the work you are all doing here at the pub!
brian said:
nice….glad to see you jumping in…and will swing by and read what you got here shortly….have all the spritzer you would like…smiles.
Linda Kruschke said:
I’ve linked to a poem I just wrote last night and posted this morning. My Thursday poem is always under the theme of Thankful Thursday. The intro tells a little about what I was trying to accomplish with the poem, but I’m not sure I pulled it off. I know it needs work and would love some constructive feedback. I’ll be back later to do my own critiques as requested. Peace, Linda
CC Champagne said:
Hi Linda! Just letting you know that I won’t get to this until the morning, but I will be back! *smile*
Steve King said:
NIce to visit with you all again. My post needs work. Interesting to see what others think. Thanks in advance…..
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Debbie Dawnslight said:
“and improvising is a lot about capturing the mood of a piece first before you start to play it yourself. If you try to just play your own thing, you will mess a song up. Critiquing poetry for me is much like this.”
Right on, Claudia!
You know, even the post you wrote here sounds musical, rhythmic. Great style!
You too – DJ Smiles 🙂
Happy to be here and hope I can critique… hope I can help.
My entry is one I wrote a couple weeks ago, worked on it some more and still I am not sure… would love comments, critique – any feedback.
Thank you all! ❤
claudia said:
good evening everyone.. yes…i’m still out of town on business and thought i’d rush into the pub, have a quick drink and say hello before i go back to the group i’m taking care of this week…will be back home tomorrow evening and then start making my rounds… really looking forward to reading your poetry… so – see you soon and hope you like our musical approach on poetry crit.. smiles
manicddaily said:
Hi Brian and Claudia, A wonderful exercise. I posted an older poem (two versions), one that has always been a bit problematic. The problems may be beyond fixing, as there is a bit of self-pity going on there. (More than a bit.) Agh.
k. (aka Manicddaily)
Jo Bryant said:
This place is just wonderful for the soul – love all it has to offer.
Beth said:
Wow, you two have your own little crit party? How cool is that? Thanks for the opportunity. Constructive critique is a valuable tool for poets to employ. How could I pass this up?
Thanks for all you do!
Beth
manicddaily said:
Already getting very helpful critiques making me realize that my “sonnet” only has 13 lines!
California Ink in Motion said:
Good evening, I am offering one I wrote awhile back.. Feeing all the love in this room prompted me. Flash in Time.
Heaven said:
I posted one today. Thanks for the guidelines Brian and Claudia ~
Poetry Pastiche said:
Claudia and Brian, you rocked this intro. Brilliant. I read every word. : )
Art & Soul, Ink (@soulwrites) said:
Because I have never really attempted to ‘get into’ poetry by anyone else before, and have never critiqued any writing that was not literally hip-hop lyrics, I am going to use this opportunity to express to the author my experience with their art. Until I feel like I can completely submerse myself into another’s writing, I don’t want to say what I didn’t like, or what needs to be changed. Here’s to a new adventure! (Note: got one done 🙂
Poetry Pastiche said:
I already linked a poem I wrote last week because I didn’t think I had a new poem in me. But one emerged. Here it is, if you’d like to read about how I’m dying from being overheated:
http://poetrypastiche.blogspot.com/2011/09/burning.html
Lori McClure (@lorimcspeaks) said:
This was really wonderful Claudia and Brian. I had to laugh when I got to OPP because I thought, ‘where did Claudia go?’ lol
I’ll be linking up soon. Always love getting concrit!
Joanne Sprott (@muselady11) said:
Thanks so much, Brian (and Claudia), for the opportunity, for my own villanelle, but more importantly, the chance to try out the critique thing. Got to work on an ending alternative, not my strong suit, but a good challenge for a lovely dancing rhythmic poem submitted just before mine. Now I must wait to see who posts after me, I suppose…
Reflections said:
Thank you Brian and Claudia for offering such a wonderful atmosphere for us to stretch our wings. The Pub is truly an inspirational hang out for me.
brian said:
smiles…i am deeply encouraged at the critique i am reading by many of you…thank you for embracing it…that being said i made it to about 2/3 of you tonight and will stop by in the morning and see how we are doing with the crit as well…thank you for humbly being bold….
David King said:
I have put up a poem I am not sure about. Thanks for all past help.
Art & Soul, Ink (@soulwrites) said:
I am thankful for the opportunity to take part in this wonderful exercise. Normally I keep my feedback to myself for fear of offending anyone, and never really having provided any critiquing before. This was a nice venue to get a feel for doing it, where the authors know that some of us are new to this aspect of poetry. Thank you Brian & Claudia, and thank you to my ‘victims’ as well 😉
Heaven said:
I think it is helpful to look back at the previous Crit sessions for guidelines in improving our craft (see Archives) from time to time.
And I agree that this part of writing, though difficult and sensitive, is important.
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Poetry Pastiche said:
We need to have a serious conversation about commenting issues. I’ve just spent about half an hour trying to post a comment on Arron’s blog (only because he’s totally worth it). But I am still having no luck. I’ve tried every possibility. I really, really wish everyone would allow anonymous comments.
Arron, if you pop by here, this is what I was trying to say to you:
LOVE the image.It reminds me of A Clockwork Orange.
Here are my favorite parts …
“the cuckoo clock – post-mortem,
fascinating the child’s mind is half the trick”
“one navel for every segment ring”
“swathing black silk ribbons – sealing our fate,
curling toes we made strange love in soft memory pockets”
“I disremember the blasphemer –
his doggerel matrix rhapsody”
This is probably my favorite of your pieces, Arron. Bravo. Really enjoyed the fruit juiced into your poetry.
Seasideauthor Sharon Rose © said:
My all time fav experience, a sonnet for review. Thanks.
brian said:
alright people…i am switching the light off…we open back up at 3 pm EST tomorrow for Poetics…Claudia is back and taking us for a ride on the wild side…see you there!
Lydia said:
I am learning so much here. But not so much that I knew you switched the light off, i.e., that I would miss out on Mr. Linky. That’s what happened, though, but not before I had a post ready to go. I also left comments about James Rainsford’s poem, even if they were not an official critique. It’s lights out here now and I am hailing a cab!
claudia said:
don’t go too far Lydia…the lights will soon be switched on again for the poetics prompt…just 3 hours left…
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