Tags
Arvon Foundation, Clare Pollard, Neil Rollinson, poetry sharing, Ted Hughes Centre. Lumb Bank, Writing
Hello and welcome poets, everywhere. My name is Tony Maude, and once again it is my pleasure to welcome you to the dVerse Poets Pub for Open Link Night.
Two weeks ago I was privileged to attend an Arvon Foundation course at The Ted Hughes Centre,Lumb Bank in Yorkshire, England. I was there with 13 other aspiring poets from England and one from the Netherlands to spend a few days simply concentrating on writing poetry.
We benefitted from workshops which were led each morning by either Clare Pollard or Neil Robinson – and each afternoon we were able to share 20 minutes one-to-one with one or other of these established writers to show them our work and receive advice from them. Thankfully, although this was initially a daunting prospect, both Clare and Neil were really helpful and insightful about ways that we could improve our writing. For example, I showed Clare an 18-line poem that I had written in the early part of last year. She read it, considered it for about 10 seconds, then drew a line through the first stanza; four lines of my poem extracted just like that. Then she said, “Now you have a really interesting sonnet. That first stanza was just you warming up; you needed to write it, but your readers don’t need to have to read it.”
This has me wondering, what opportunities are there for you, wherever you are, to benefit from the advice of established writers? Does your country have an organisation similar to the Arvon Foundation here in the UK, which exists to promote and encourage writing for people of all abilities, all levels of experience, from all age-groups and backgrounds?
The other part of the course that was hugely helpful was discussing my work with other poets, each of whom is at a similar stage in their writing journey; each of whom gave me important insights and encouragement about my own work. In some ways, that’s part of what is on offer here at the Pub – and Open Link Night is when we give you the opportunity to show your work to your peers and receive their feedback on it. Of course, that works best if you visit them and comment on their work too … smiles.
Here’s how it works:
Tony Maude said:
Good evening/morning/afternoon poets – and welcome to the show … smiles.
ihatepoetry said:
Thanks for hosting – I don’t have any writing groups in my area, so I come here – for validation and inspiration.
Tony Maude said:
It’s got to be tough with no writers’ groups – but that is exactly why we’re here.
Björn Rudberg (brudberg) said:
Interesting post… writing poetry from Sweden is another challenge.. I have no idea if there exist any organizations like that… of course it would be focused on writing poetry in Swedish.. which I don’t do… so I have to do with these communities (which is good for me)… wonder if I would even dare… Love the thought of cutting away the first stanza to make a sonnet…
Tony Maude said:
You should really think about it, Bjorn … and no, I’m not on commission … smiles.
http://vivinfrance.wordpress.com said:
Me neither, Tony. I do write a bit in French, but haven’t found anything like a writer’s group here – too rural, I suppose. That’s why the Internet is such a Godsend.
Tony Maude said:
Those of us who live in or near a major city definitely have an advantage in finding local groups to attend, that’s for sure. But most of the writers at such groups don’t seem to really understand poetry, so they quite often don’t see or comment on the flaws that need to be ironed out of a poem.
beckykilsby said:
Great to hear about your expereince at Lumb Bank…. and yes, having the virtual option via dVerse is a gift for those of us in far-flung parts 🙂
Tony Maude said:
Oh, absolutely. Without dVerse, I might never have dared to go to an Arvon course; now I’ve been on one, I’m thinking about going again.
jaybluepoems said:
Thanks for hosting another open link “non-temporal-centric” event. 🙂 I’ve posted a motivator, or at least I hope it’s a motivator… hope you enjoy. And thanks again for giving us all a place to hang, share, discuss, learn, etc… Jay Blue
Tony Maude said:
Welcome to the pub. The real thanks should go to Brian and Claudia who worked so hard behind the scenes, first to set the pub up, then to keep it well staffed and open. Thanks also to the poets who come here to share … smiles
freyathewriter said:
Ooh, I love this first dVerse of the week! I would love to get more involved with professional writers! I’ve drooled over Arvon events…
Thank you for hosting and sharing your experiences and thoughts with us, Tony.
Tony Maude said:
Hi Freya. Technically,it’s the second dVerse of the week. Yesterday Beth brought us an article on the Romantic poets, which is definitely worth reading. Mondays here are quieter, but always worth the visit.
freyathewriter said:
Well, I meant the dVerse that invites poetic responses 😉
I’ll be reading Beth’s post over the next few days…
Tony Maude said:
… smiles
kelly said:
It sounds like you had a wonderful experience, it is always so nice to get feedback and to work with others.
Happy Open Link Night to Tony and all!
Tony Maude said:
Hi Kelly, yes it was a great experience; I learned loads, which is always something I enjoy.
Happy OLN to you too.
Grace said:
I would love to go to such a course and have someone guide me in my writing ~ Critical feedback is important to one’s development ~ Though I get encouraging comments in my writing, I am always aware that I am lacking somehow & some way and this pushes me to improve myself even more ~ What I like about OLN is the opportunity to read so many fine writers ~ I have learned a lot from all of you ~
Happy Tuesday to all 🙂
Tony Maude said:
Hi Grace,
I think critical feedback is vital; it’s quite easy to get people to say how nice your poetry is, but finding people who can really help you to improve is much harder. I’ve learned a lot here too, especially on Thursdays and Saturdays.
brian miller said:
i think getting honest feedback is huge and allows for leaps in your writing…is a public forum such as a webpage or blog the best way to get it…i dunno…i dont mind it at all…and would def encourage it…cant say the same for all…too much ego involved…smiles….
happy OLN all….as soon as i get the buses out, i will be out ont he trail…
Tony Maude said:
Hi Brian,
I’m not sure that a public space like a blog is the best place for really honest, warts and all, feedback. I wonder whether some of our more established writers could be persuaded to offer such feedback directly, rather than in public? Just a thought … smiles
brian miller said:
i know we have talked about it before….creating a back room or lab in which something like this could happen…it would def take committed people and have to start small….food for thought….smiles.
lupitatucker said:
I they would, I would camp out for tickets to that. I desperately need honest feedback on my poems.
brian miller said:
smiles.
i think there would be many willing to get it, the struggle we had before was having those willing to give it as well…we ran a crit forum when we first opened and while it was over running with people wanting it we never really could get people to start giving back what they were given.
http://vivinfrance.wordpress.com said:
When I was studying, (online at the UK’s Open University) we worked in tutor groups and were encouraged to critique actively our colleagues’ work. One tutor suggested we used the praise sandwich – if we needed to correct something, say what you found good first, before the negative stuff, and finish with encouragement. One of our crucial assignments was to choose a piece of a colleague’s work, examine all the critiques and then assess how the final version was improved (or otherwise!) taking into account the peer group’s suggestions. That was the hardest assignment of the whole course!
lupitatucker said:
Really happy to have dverse here for that very purpose also! It’s so hard to self edit. Posting my poems on my blog was hard enough, but now editing is coming more easily. I consider my poetry blog more of an online notebook, although some poems are in their final state, many are still open for revision.
Tony Maude said:
You have to be careful about what you put on a blog if you might want to get your work published at some point in the future. Many magazines will not accept work that has been published on a blog, since it is already in the public domain.
lupitatucker said:
Thanks Tony, you are so right! I did learn that fact a little too late. It’s a bit of a quandary for me; I really enjoy posting poems, and oftentimes the “spur of the moment” ones end up being my favorites. It’s hard for me to keep them underwraps, but I do see the wisdom in it because I would really like to have them published.
poemblaze said:
Reminds me of early on in my writing sojourn when I showed someone a two stanza poem. He said he preferred the middle. He meant that pleasant space not disturbed by any of my words.
Tony Maude said:
Oh, that had to hurt at the time, but it made me laugh … smiles
brian miller said:
ouch.
grapeling said:
oof. ouch. funny though ~
lupitatucker said:
I like how he kept it positive though, right? 😉
Tony Maude said:
The early rush seems to have died down; time for me to hit the trail.
Madeleine Begun Kane said:
That sounds like a wonderful experience. Happy Tuesday!
Tony Maude said:
Happy Tuesday to you too, Madeleine
Sue Anderson said:
A few of you are famiiar to me from other poetry sites, but this is the first time I have commented, I believe. It is definitely the first time I will be participating, and I am looking forward to reading the linked poems. (Enjoyed your story about the poetry workshop, by the way. It takes a brave soul to offer a poem up for stanza slashing!;)
Tony Maude said:
Welcome, Sue. You’ve done the hard part already; now the fun begins … smiles.
brian miller said:
yay!!!!! was great to see you in the list sue!!!!! smiles.
Susan said:
I am in an odd little mood thinking of safety and casualties, but I am interested in your question. Here, I attend a writing workshop with writer, Alison Hicks. Mainly I work on my novel with her, still learning what works for me and what doesn’t. I went to my first “speed date” with a publisher a few weeks ago … 10 minutes on one poem … at a conference. Now I want more close attention like that … It was Great! Any suggestions from Pub crawlers?
Tony Maude said:
I think, as Brian said above, that a public blog is pretty well certainly the wrong place for the kind of critique that can be delivered one-to-one. Add to that the fact that my critics were also making a significant contribution to my writing – not just pulling it apart. Plus, we got to know each other over the time we were together and built up a level of trust that enabled us to say what we thought, and enabled us to receive the thoughts of others. And, of course, ultimately what any of us chooses to do with critique is up to us; no-one can make me change my poems, they can only suggest possible improvements. In the example above, Clare Pollard was absolutely right – and I could see exactly why she was right too. The odd thing is, I hadn’t seen it myself until that moment.
brian miller said:
i think relationship def plays into the ability to get beyond the ego in writing….and knowing the intentions of the other as well…
Susan said:
Yes. I know I trust my workshop people, though the time for each is limited. Hopefully I’ll be able to form a spin off group that is free. And, finding intensive opportunities like yours would be ideal.
Kavita said:
If there ever was a more well-knit poetry site that this, I am yet to see it..
Cheers to D’Verse!!!
Tony Maude said:
Welcome, Kavita. We’re glad you like what you see here … smiles.
Victoria C. Slotto said:
Nice to see you here, Kavita. I hope it will become a habit…I’ve missed you.
Kavita said:
Missed you too, Victoria… Missed WRITING! 🙂
So glad to be back here…
brian miller said:
hey you!!!!!
Kavita said:
HELLO there!! 🙂 How’ve you been, SIR Brian? (dunno why, but I’ve always wanted to call you that) 🙂
brian miller said:
i am well m’lady
& u?
hehe.
Kavita said:
🙂 very well indeed! Have been missing all the poetry for a while though…duhh!
brian miller said:
glad you remembered your way to the pub then…smiles.
Victoria C. Slotto said:
Thank you for being behind the bar, Tony. Your story about your critique session reminds me of the first workshop I brought my novel to. I ended up lopping off pages and pages of the beginning that went nowhere. Makes me want to revisit some of my old poetry and see what I can do without.
Victoria C. Slotto said:
BTW, the shooting both Brian and I wrote about happened here in our community. It has been a sad, tragic time for us. The teacher reminded me of Brian–total dedication to teaching, to his students. A former Marine, a member of the National Guard–his life was dedicated to protecting others. And thus he died. Who thought teaching would ever require such courage? Bravo to Michael Landsberry, to our own Brian and all the rest of you so dedicated.
Tony Maude said:
I picked that up Victoria, and it’s got to be even tougher to deal with this when it comes so close. From this side of the Atlantic, we can only shake our heads and wonder how many more times before the bullet is bitten, so to speak.
Tony Maude said:
I came home, looked over most of what I have written and decided most of it was only fit for firelighters. It can be humbling to open yourself to critique – and it certainly changes the way you view your own work.
http://vivinfrance.wordpress.com said:
I so agree with that lopping process! At a workshop with RV Bailey, the leitmotif for the whole week was “shrink your poetry”.
Tony Maude said:
OK, it’s time for me to get some much-needed beauty sleep. I’ll be back tomorrow to catch up.
brian miller said:
sleep well….just got home from work so a little catchin up to do myself….
yikici said:
Heya, ’tis my first participation for Open Mike, but second share on dVerse, I tried something a little different, hope it’s enjoyed. 🙂
brian miller said:
woot. good to see you back….
yikici said:
Why thank you Brian, I have my moments. lol It’s lovely being amongst fellow poets, I’m still a wee bit timid, but hopefully not for long…
brian miller said:
ah, we’re a likeable bunch…well most…smiles.
yikici said:
Yes, I am getting that vibe.. 🙂
Tony Maude said:
Just missed you last night … hope you had a fun time … and welcome to the crowd that is OLN here at dVerse … smiles
yikici said:
Thank you ☺️ I did enjoy it till I was too tired to take in the beautiful words, so I’ll catch up on my break today. ✨
whocouldknowthen said:
i’m sorry to see you leaving Tony, ty for getting us started tonight. hello everyone, so glad to be back again, had a family issue that needed undivided attention. i’m so looking forward to reading poetry tonight.
happy reading all!
brian miller said:
understandable….family first for sure….enjoy playing now….smiles.
hopefully it was nothing too serious….
whocouldknowthen said:
had to stop writing to focus on creating a positive outcome, as a parent you would understand. but what an incredible resolution! ty for asking, we’re all good now!
brian miller said:
nice…love it when it comes to good…for sure.
Tony Maude said:
Those transatlantic time zones can be a pain … things just get warmed up around here and I have to leave. Of course, it does mean that I can get an early start on cleaning up the debris … smiles.
Glad you have a good outcome to your family issue and are now able to retrun to your writing … smiles again!
M. J. Joachim said:
Just added my link – sure have missed this hop. So glad to participate again.
brian miller said:
ha. loved your creative texture tonight…smiles.
M. J. Joachim said:
🙂 Thanks!
Tony Maude said:
Glad to welcome you back … smiles
shanyns said:
I am in a cowboy state of mind. A horse state of mind. But it isn’t about horses. Well not all of it! 🙂
brian miller said:
nothing wrong with cowboy…or horses…even if it isnt always about horses. unless it is…smiles.
Tony Maude said:
Yeeeee Ha! Smiles
Linda Rogers said:
Hi Tony and thanks for tending bar on OLN. It’s a good opportunity to thank you, Claudia and Brian for having a place to come share our poetry and make friends. I am so glad I found this community.
brian miller said:
smiles…and we are glad to have you…
those that gather def give it the personality…
and the flavor. with many of the pubtenders
out for various reasons this week—its nice
to be surrounded by other poet friends…
Tony Maude said:
Definitely Brian and Claudia who deserve the thanks; they do the bulk of the work. Glad you found dVerse, Linda … and so pleased that you like it here… smiles
marilyncavicchia said:
Happy Open Link Night to Tony and all!
Tony Maude said:
And Happy Open Link Night to you too, Marilyn. It’s nice to see you again … smiles
lynndiane said:
I agree with you, Linda…on all points! “Cheers” to everyone at the pub and I’m ready to taste, sip, chug your poetry here tonight 😀 But Tony has me wondering if anyone knows of writers’ groups, poetry conventions/retreats/workshops on this side of the pond??
brian miller said:
alright, what side of the pond are you on..? ha.
i used to be in an online version…a closed group
where you could be more honest than you can
in a public forum. there is one here locally
but…its kinda hit and miss and stylistically
i dont necessarily fit….
Tony Maude said:
I’m guessing you are on the West side of the Pond … smiles. I can’t see why there wouldn’t be something similar to Arvon … maybe not nationally in the US, but in individual states. And if not, then perhaps that’s an opportunity for someone …
mishunderstood said:
Hello everyone…in response to Tony’s question about organized writing groups, I do not know of any in my area that could offer advice or expertise. I do belong to a Creative writer’s group. We provide encouragement and positive feedback, share our creativity and have a lot of fun in the process. It was the major catapult for me, I can’t stop writing! 🙂
I look forward to reading some wonderful poetry tonight.
Cheers!
Tony Maude said:
Local creative writers’ groups can be really encouraging, but sometimes everyone is trying so hard to be nice that members don’t receive the type of critique that could really help them to improve their work.
Tamara (at PenPaperPad) said:
Thanks for tending bar. It’s a lovely placed to be.
Tony Maude said:
It’s the owners – Brian and Claudia – and the clientelle who make this place what it is … smiles. NIce to see you here again, Tamara.
brian miller said:
Hey Nolan,
If you stop back in, i am not on facebook…but really nice line to end on— not seeing, not being—
Akila said:
Appreciate critical and constructive feedback. has helped me a lot. Its important too to take it in good stride! Have been out of OLN largely cos of time zone issues. Off late have been conscious of posting AND reading other posts. MTB and Form for All have been a wonderful learning process,
Tony Maude said:
MTB and FFA are our kind of experimental workshops – we encourage each other to try something we might not have tried before, be that a poetry form, style or subject. Sometimes I don’t quite get what is being asked for, but that makes me go off and look at writing I might never have considered before. For example, I have a book of the Beat Poets to read; I wouldn’t have considered it except for last week’s MTB prompt.
ramblingsfromamum said:
Hi Tony – thanks for hosting, unfortunately I won’t be able to participate with this one. Happy writing everyone. 🙂
Tony Maude said:
Sorry that you can’t participate today J. Maybe we’ll see you later in the week?
ramblingsfromamum said:
Hopefully Tony…thank you …smiles
gracefulglider said:
Hello great people,
This is my first time back since 2011 or thereabouts. It felt awesome seeking out your page again and seeing how much this community has grown. I look forward to enjoying more prompts.
Thank bmiller. I already follow you on twitter – @wanjikumwaurah
Sending you love and light always,
Wanjiku
Tony Maude said:
Welcome back. It’s good to see you … smiles
Gay Reiser Cannon said:
Hi Tony – I was in a writer’s workshop all of the 80s and 90s but it fell apart somewhere around the time I moved to the coast. I may try to find one again, but it’s always uneven here in North Texas – most writer’s are writing fiction, and much of that is genre – romance, cowboy, mystery, sci-fi – not much literary and very little poetry.
Sorry I didn’t write anything for #OLN this week. I’ll see if I can come up with anything for #FFA. I am nursing my gum as I had a tooth extracted yesterday, and have workmen and delivery men at the house. Will try to get around to reading a little this afternoon, though. Thanks for pulling a double this week. We all appreciate it!
Tony Maude said:
Dentistry and workmen – both reasons that the writing muse is absent; together – well what can I say. Thanks for dropping in, Gay.
ManicDdaily said:
Hey Tony–I am sorry to be late to the party but very busy–I am posting a poem that I wrote for Gay’s Beat Challenge–and was late for that one too – Bri and Claudia – you’ve seen. Hope all well. k.
Tony Maude said:
Hi K.
I know what it’s like when pesky little things likelife get in the way of important stuff like writing … smiles
Adriana Citlali Ramírez said:
I participated in an Arvon retreat last year and really enjoyed it. It was very nice to be away from internet, mobile phone signal, and non-writers. I remember I managed to write a couple of good new poems and to work some old ones. I am glad to read that your experience was also good.
Tony Maude said:
I managed to write a couple of new pieces and do some really good work on some old ones.
It’s certainly something I’m considering doing again.
Ceramic Mist said:
Hi ! its so nice to find a place that celebrates rhythm. my first visit here.
Tony Maude said:
Rhythm, rhyme, meter, feet – we love them all here … smiles
Tony Maude said:
Well folks, it’s time for me to tidy up the pub, and get everything ready for Form for All. See you at 3pm EST when we’ll be looking at …
OK here’s a clue: what has 15 lines, 2 rhymes and a rentrement?