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expectations, here is why we call it bullfights haha, looking at the future staying in the now, poetry
When I was a child, there was one Christmas when all my sister wanted was a baby doll. Not just any baby doll, but one that was larger than she was. Santa came and Christmas morning we woke up and ran into the living room and my sister’s face fell…it really was a nice baby doll…i am sure it cost a pretty penny…but it was not larger than my sister.
My father went out on Christmas day and found pharmacy which had a very large baby doll, for about five dollars. It did not matter that is was cheaper, it was what my sister wanted and my father saved the day. My sister had expectations.
While on the surface, we can judge and say “I can’t believe she would not be grateful…,” we all have expectations. Often we don’t even realize them until someone does not meet them—and then we get upset. It has been shown that our energy level goes down when our expectations are not met.
This happens all the time in relationships. Our expectations are not met and so we go in search of someone that can meet them. Sadly, few individuals take the time to discuss expectations when they start a relationship, so their partner is trying to hit what seems to be a moving target.
When we first started dVerse Poets it was exciting. I knew most of the 160 poets we had plugging in on day 1 and had experience with them. Our goal was to create a comfortable place for poets, thus why we called it a pub. Poets could come in and out, interact, play and become a community.
“Become a community” is where my expectations began being placed on the other poets.
An expectation we had, since the beginning, for our pub tenders is that they comment on a set number of participants at OLN. This way everyone that linked would be welcomed by at least one person. Our hope was that this would engender the value of community. I personally made it an expectation of myself to visit everyone, which I did for the first year of our existence.
Where I went astray was in expecting others to have the same value on community. It became an expectation and as time went on and the percentage of people linking in that did not visit anyone or did not return comment (around 60-70% of linkers right now) so did my personal frustration level.
So, I am learning to manage my expectations.
When one of our poets recently hacked our password so they could enter the Linky before the opening, it made me really begin questioning what we do here.
On Sunday, I posted the last post on my personal blog for the time being. I wont be linking in to OLN or Poetics or Meeting the Bar/Form For All for at least this week. I will comment on my 10 assigned links at OLN (maybe a few others–smiles–but not everyone). I will be taking time in this week to really think through why I do what I do and what is reasonable expectations of myself and others.
So, help me out here. Let’s talk about expectations. What do you expect when you come to dVerse? what do you expect of pub tenders? what do you expect of others that link in?
dVerse 
When I come I expect to see an interesting prompt, story or something else, I expect that the pub tenders will have that and be interesting. They always have/do both. When I link in I take a look at least five people at minimum at first and then I might come back later and look at more. I expect other people to try to do the same if not more. Thank you for having this spot for poets to share and I really enjoy visiting.
Personally, this community is a place to share my poetry and receive feedback/comment. We all need to have some feedback, and even if we have our own inner reasons to write or create, which may be independent from the reaction of others, it is in connection with the other that we may understand why are we doing what we do. Not being English my first language it’s even more important this feedback, but for that same reason, it’s difficult for me to read and follow the work of others. This is not the place to discuss why am I writing in English, but I can’t tell you that it’s much more easy for me to write (poetry) in this language than to read it. “I’m a disabled reader” as I said once, and that’s also why I really value all those that leave some feedback or only a word on my blog (in particularly Brian, that haven’t missed any post).
i hear you.. english is my second language as well and it def. makes it more difficult and time consuming when i started first, i always had the translator window open cause it could be that i didn’t understand one word and it took the whole poem in a different direction..
This is an interesting topic as I have just made a new friend who has taught me the value of expectations and how strong they make relationships. As a fairly regular participant here I always thought the expectations were very clear, that it is a community of support and a place to learn about each other through sharing our words. Hearing that someone hacked the sight to get their poem in first is a bit sickening to me in light of the sprit of this place. I personally have become less a fan of OLN for the simple fact that is has become the busiest night of the week and a place, for some, just to post and run. I love the challenges and prompts so much more because for me they are so challenging and the participation is focused and has intent. I read everyone’s stuff and honestly don’t comment on everything, sometimes I just don’t know what to say but I do try and make sure that everyone who visits me gets a visit in return. I have had some great moments here and found a community that helped me through a very hard time in my life. I have written some of the best poems of my life this past year due to some of the prompts and look forward every week to what they will be. I feel like I have made some nice virtual friends here too and have such respect for the writers in this group, I feel that through reading and experiencing their thoughts and feelings I try harder in what I am putting out for them to read. I love this place and am thankful for it and the effort that your put forth every week.
I just wanted to say that I usually do visit your poetry links. However, I do most of my reading on my IPad and I think it doesn’t work too well with your background image (I can’t see the words against the black elements). I’ll keep trying though : )
thank you. I added a phone app to help that, I love the background but maybe I’ll consider changing it if it’s too hard to read. I love your comments as well, thank you.
i hear you…i was just talking to a couple people last week…expressing how OLN is my least favorite night…there is a lot of energy…but so many that drop and run and never return to visit anyone else…which makes it just an ego trip for them or self promotion…i dunno…but know i feel you in that…
There are days I come to meet old friends. Some days I come to meet new people. Other times, I just sit back and watch. Or read. On the loveliest days, I learn something new – recharged and inspired.Once in a while, I just want to be alone.
But definitely, I always walk away feeling better.
ah…that makes me smile…
i hear you on the different things on different days…and i hear you on times just wanting to be alone as well…
a couple months back i created a few days a week where i just dont link in anywhere so i dont have to read a list of others..
Expectation? I have learnt in my near 50 yrs on this rock we call home, to have very simple expectation of all things because that leads to very little disappointment. Some see that as a cowards way of thinking. I call it logic. So when people or situations excede my expectations, I am usually left feeling a sense of pleasure at the outcome. That makes sense to me and with my sometimes delicate mental state, it works well most of the time.
Its sad when I read that other poets who post dont comment on others work. It seldom happens with me. The problem as I see it this. The same poets occupy the same opening spots each and every week on Mr Linky. Those poets get a lot of comments. Me, I start at the last post and take it from there. I dont read the same poets week in week out and I dont comment on the same poets. I explore most of the time and leave comments where I feel I can. Its seldom if ever where I leave no comments. Sometimes, I leave after posting, due to health matters, but try to come back the following day and read some and comment. Its selfish to do otherwise.
As for hacking a password, wtf does that achieve for anyone? That is just stupid, childish and no wonder it pissed you off, whoever you are, it would piss me off as well.
I have zero expectation of the people who run this place. You created a haven for like minded people to shar their work, is that not enough? That you do more is appreciated by me and many others, of that I am sure.
I have lowered my expectations considerably in the last year myself, Brian. When I first discovered the poetry blogging world, I was unbelievably energized by what I saw as interest in the craft of writing, and in my own writing, and I was correspondingly willing to be interested in the writing of others–unfortunately, I have come to realize that this is all too often not the case–it is far from being about an interest in the writing or the craft for many, and instead, purely a social interaction, or a contest for comment counts, and not about the poetry at all.
I’ve reached the point where I would rather not have people come leave a comment out of duty, or only to get a comment in return, and I in turn extend that same respect to others now. If I come to your blog and leave a comment, it’s because I find something in your writing, and respect it enough to say so. But there is only so much energy to go around, and I’d rather not put it into something that gives little back. We need each others’ support to keep doing this–it’s tough–but it needs to be grounded and real.
Anyway, my personal thanks, Brian, for all you’ve done, and to the poets and friends I’ve made here who do continue to come by, and for whom I feel a true sense of community. As for someone who would hack a password to be “first in line,’ that is truly truly an abysmal statement of their values.
it needs to be grounded and real….that is an important line for me in your…especially in relation to community and how we interact…its impossible to find that in a large group…and we are lucky to find it among a handful for individuals…you make some wise points joy…
For me reading and commenting is about time and its limitations. Admittedly, I don’t visit everyone at open link and sometimes I read and don’t comment. Let’s face it people everywhere have their cliques, their preferred writers, their friends, etc…
Brian, you are a very supportive poet. I often wonder how you do it. As for the hacking, well, all I can say is it takes all types to make this world go round. Not necessarily for the good of all. What a shame (shame on them).
Pamela
i def. agree on the limitations energy- and timewise – i also don’t manage to comment on every poet on an OLN. i do always try to meet new people though, read some of my favs and return comments.
I do the same, Claudia. I have met some very fine writers here. But, do you return visits to people who don’t reciprocate? It becomes a slippery slope, if you ask me.
i try for a while, but it’s like in a conversation, when only one person talks and the other never replies, it gets frustrating…
That is exactly how I feel. I might still read their work, but I don’t leave anymore comments.
i agree…a while back i stopped commenting on quite a few that never returned a comment…i do typically return comment to anyone that visits my place….there are very few that i would continue to read if they comment back or not…the analogy of the conversation is a valid one for sure…
Brian, I never thought anything would hurt your enthusiasm, you who tirelessly give such deep readings to so many. I couldn’t read and respond to as many as you, ever. I love reading the poems here as they are most often quality, and there are a few poets I always seek out to read for their uniqueness as well as their readings of my poems. I don’t always comment. Sometimes I only let people know my enthusiasm, sometimes I address the craft. But I do the latter so much less since I don’t get that kind of response myself. Actually, I only have two more posts at the Garden and I am leaving there. Here I will visit occasionally as I turn my attention to other projects. But the enthusiasm and encouragement to keep writing I have received here led to a priceless first year of writing. It told me to keep writing. Why did I ever expect more?
you touch an important point here susan… the stopping to leave comments cause we don’t get a response back.. it’s a downward spiral..but i can understand, it’s frustrating. nice on the enthusiasm and encouragement you received through your fellow poets…that’s good to hear..smiles
smiles. it has worn on me the last little bit susan…and being around for 4.5 years i have seen so many come and go it gets disheartening at times seeing friends disappear…with the community frustrations, when i had to spend the weekend shutting down and reopening linky…it was just too much…disappointed is an understatement…
it will be back though…my enthusiasm…just need some time away to let it recharge…as i do love to encourage poets…writers…i never would have been writing myself without the encouragement of a select few….
That’s the thing, I guess. Pass it forward. I need time to finish the novel, but I will be back to give where I have gotten so much.
Brian, you are the most exemplary of bar tenders – I always wonder how you manage to do so much – writing, prompting, commenting.
Time limitations apart, I am sometimes quixotic about reading on OLN – every fifth one,or all down one line, or just dotting about to those whose poetry I know and love. But Brian is always number one on my dotting!
I do find the black background trying to my old eyes, and sometimes break my reading into separate chunks.
But my expectation of dVerse is always fulfilled – companionship, a huge variety of good writing and a feeling of belonging.
when i started my blog about three years ago, i would’ve never thought what a journey it would be.. just recently found my diary entry where i was pondering if i should start it and if someone would read it. then the doors opened and i was amazed at what i found in the cyberworld…first artblogs, photoblogs…then poetry and i felt like i’m on an unbelievable adventure trip, i met fantastic people, learned so much. after a while i realized that there are strange people, lazy people, egoistic people around as well, just like in real life. it makes me sad when people just link up and then disappear. i get angry when people link up for prompts with totally prompt un-related themes. i find it impolite when people don’t return comments. still, if i would put it on a scale, the good would outweigh the not so good.
Only one thing I disagree with Claudia, I never expect a return comment just because I commented somewhere, my world doesn’t work in that way. People comment because they want to, not because they feel obligated to, or thats how I believe it should work.
smiles.. i hear you tino.. i would expect that people are interested enough to read other people’s work as well, esp. when they link up & esp. when someone took the time to comment on theirs. unfortunately there are some that never seem to want to read anyone’s work..and then i wonder about their motivation to link up.. but def. it is not comment for comment…like a trade..shouldn’t be like that…definitely
i understand that expectation can cause disagreements…i dont think it is trade for trade either…but if someone never comments on others…it leads me to believe they are in it for their own self interest…and if i try to talk to someone and they dont talk back..t.he likelihood of me trying to talk to them def diminishes…
i would agree…the good outweighs the bad claudia…i have met some beautiful people in the cyberworld and found some amazing friends that i never would have otherwise…
I post poker blogs elsewhere because I play and read and write poker. Theres a reputation system there where other members can vote your post cool or useful. i dont post for that reason, I post because I enjoy it not for any kudos it may bring. Its the same with dVerse, I post because I want to and if others get enjoyment from what I post, I am pleased. the ones who post and run, good luck to them, if thats how they want to play it. As in life, I just ignore people like that, they are not worth my time or effort.
I will read every reply here, not because I have to, but because I want to as I love other peoples opinions, even those that differ from my own 😉
Brian, Mary and I marvel at how you manage to visit so many people, and do all that you do. You are so supportive and always have something positive to say. I also applaud the policy of a number of assigned links per person. A great idea. Our site tries to encourage community as well, and we see some of the same patterns you are talking about here. For me, personally, I feel satisfied that there seems to be a core membership who value and appreciate both of these sites, who do participate and comment.
My practice, in all three sites I frequent, is to not link if I know I wont have time to make visits to a good number of other sites.
I know it can get discouraging. The hacking boggles my mind. Just know that so many of us out here admire and appreciate how wonderfully you run this site, and the time and energy you put into visiting so many poets. It is a great site, which provides a fantastic forum for learning, sharing and growing through poetry. “Thanks, Brian” does not begin to cover it!
smiles…thank you sherry…you made me smile…
we have a good core here as well…which is always encouraging…and they will be most of the ones that read and comment today as well…ha…oy…what do you do you know…i like your policy…and have def done that as well with some sites…
shalom sherry
You raised an important issue Brian ~ I have learned to remember very well who visits, and who doesn’t. And yes, I stop visiting those who don’t reciprocate comments. But I do my duty during OLN and comment on my assigned numbers. Also, it doesn’t matter where you are on Tuesday night if you participate actively in community building. Your blogger friends will seek you out, with or without prompts or links.
You might want to consider imposing a minimum number of visits like at least 2 if someone wants to link up.
For myself, I have grown tremendously with your comments and eveyone’s encouragement. As Claudia noted, the good outweighs the bad. But I do agree on telling everyone your expectations specially during OLN.
its funny…the first poetry community i was ever a part of had a set number to visit…and the commited did it..and there were plenty that did not…the only thing is someone then becomes the police to see if people are…and that is def not a fun job
Sadly that community has slowly faded away~
Not fun I agree but it might deter some people from just linking up and running away ~ Again it may not ~ But I don’t think we should do away with OLN as for some, this is their only time to visit the community ~
I also want to say that because I respond to prompts, other than Tuesday during OLN, that I have become familiar with some of the poets ~ There is a close camaraderie and an intimate environment during Thursday and Saturdays, that I don’t see during Tuesdays OLN ~ It is during these times that I feel that we are a community ~ Those that don’t take advantage of these prompts or challenges are missing something ~
I agree, Grace. And on the “smaller” nights I make an attempt to read them all.
I love learning from the challenges and all the wonderful stories that are shared. I can see how much I’ve grown as a poet, and there are three or four places that I’ve shared poems that are largely responsible. I’ve valued the feedback. I try to get to as many as I can to leave comments. I do find that it is increasingly difficult to keep up with everything I do as I continue new ventures. I’ve been thinking too about what is realistic for me to do and be fair to others. I can’t believe someone would hack in to post sooner.
I do hope we are able to renew your faith.
what is realistic for me to do…that is def something i have been pondering as well…smiles…i have faith…i need a rest…a breather…i will return…smiles.
I’m not sure I have expectations when I come to dVerse. I come because I feel at home amongst poets and have always felt welcome. As for password hacking to get an early placement on the link list, what a self-serving act. Trust is a fragile thread and once broken, those that depended on that trust suffer the consequences.
Please don’t let negative acts silence your voice or soil the doorstep of the pub. There is much more good here than not.
Amen to that Beth.
smiles…it def has not silenced me…i have written quite a bit the last couple days..and just enjoyed life a bit as well…and got a touch of a sunburn…ha….
I’m sitting here in warm pajamas and a blanket while you have a touch of sunburn? Good for you!
I write a great deal that never gets posted. OLN gets many links and comments. There are times where life doesn’t allow me time to devote to commenting back on every person that comments mine but I try. When I get free time, I go back through and read as many of the links as I can, sometimes leaving only a Like to show that I enjoyed it.
Although there are drop and run poets on OLN, there are also poets with good intentions whose lives interfere with their success in commenting effectively. I like to give the benefit of the doubt until I am confident that they will never look at what I offer.
I’m with others on the generic, fluff comments. There are times when I can’t figure out if they have read my poem or not. I also know that constructive critique would be too intense and time consuming for an event as large as OLN. I helped with Crit and Craft and in one night, did constructive crit on 52 poems. I was brain dead for days following.
Naturally, I feel a motherly protective instinct when it comes to dVerse because I know the degree of effort that goes into preparing and hosting each event. And feel gratitude for those who pour their energy into the site.
Before, and ever since I began contributing to dverse, I’ve been impressed with the ‘tending bar’ set up by those who cared to invest their time, talent and energies to the end goal of having an exciting experience – sharing poetry with other poets. I understood the concept and applaud how well it is handled. Thus my expectations have been elevated, not just met, and I appreciate what is offered. I would hate to see the community dissolve. The prompts are varied; there is learning; there are kind responses and support, and a convivial atmosphere, and beginners like me along with advanced seasoned talented writers.
As far as comments, I began by leaving several comments (under 10) but I soon discovered it was more worth my while to leave more as I received more and I was surprised how much I was missing by not reading as much. I realize many people don’t have the spare time I do as I am retired and not as limited.
On Thursdays and Saturdays, the turnout is lighter; it’s much easier for me to read almost everything, but not all. OLN is another story…it’s great that there are up to 160 contributors a week, a successful result in my mind. I’ve made it my own personal practice now to read and leave comments on about half.
So, if there are only 45 poems to read and comment on, I make it a point to finish at least 20. On Tuesdays, over twp days, I try to read and leave comments on about half, but am falling short and leaving maybe 40 or 50..but it depends on the subject as well. I am slower to comment on the days I don’t post or don’t. I’m sure the the group that tends bar read almost everything, and I applaud them for their dedication. Once or twice I think I commented on all of the poems and once close to 75%.. 😉
The number of views to my blog vary for different reasons. For instance this last time there were 52 poets posting and and I received a total of 27 views and 17 comments…and that is what the usual percentage is most of the time..half of those who drop by leave a comment. I don’t know how this compares. Thanks for asking for my 2 cents worth.;)
I tend to have high expectations for myself, but I don’t necessarily expect the same of others. As a recent drinker at the dverse pub, I came to it via Bjorn’s blog (love his haiku and triolet). I visited a few times as a passive observer, just to get a feel for what is going on. When I decided to become a part of the community, I deliberately started with one of the prompts, so as to say “Hey, I’m game”, and also because the prompt offered a way for me to introduce myself with my “Auckland morning” poem. As much as it’s nice to have a place to draw attention to particular poems via OLN, I recognised that for some people it could be too easy to add a link and run, and I wanted to indicate I wasn’t one of those. From my limited experience, the prompts give more of a community feel, as we’re all individually working on the same project, while OLN is like Friday night and just about everyone has come to the bar, and you can’t get to talk to them all. Regarding visiting and commenting, I play a game with myself. It’s 8am when the pub opens, so often I post and then have to go to work. However, when I’m free again, I try to at least read and comment on the posts that arrived before I link in (I’ve failed once when I was so far at the back of the pack). I then allow myself to read the comments left on my blog, before I have another read of people’s posts (sometimes I do this several times). I usually leave a comment, but occasionally I’m more subdued or too tired to say anything meaningful. I wouldn’t post, if I didn’t enjoy reading (and learning from) others work, but I recognise that there will be some people who a) think they are a genius waiting to be discovered, but as a genius they don’t have time for others’ efforts, and b) are perhaps too shy to comment (maybe younger members may feel too daunted to comment (?)). But, I do think the hacking incident is pretty low. But, then again, maybe it’s evidence that we really do have a community -for just as in any other community (physical or virtual) we have good and bad elements! (Brian you do great and humbling work with dverse – just don’t burn out on the idiots).
This has been a broad learning experience for me in terms of how to blog and blogging etiquette. I had a loose, initial expectation that the prompt writer would read and comment on my post as I saw the prompter as a guide. That expectation changed as I realized it wasn’t occurring every time. I was ok with the shifting of that expectation.
I find myself drawn to particular poets and enjoy reading the evolution of their work. When I link, I always expect myself to read and comment on at least ten others. Sometimes my favorites, sometimes new ones. Like many of you, I am occupied with many things. I have three children and a husband. One full time job and another part time job. Life is full and interesting, the source of much poetry.
I believe understanding/listening to the expectations of others and ourselves is just as important as letting the expectations go.
I am honestly grateful for dverse and the bright words of Brian, Claudia and many tenders along the way. With loose expectation, I am staying tuned for more.
Brian, you are amazing and I know I felt encouraged! I tried to visit others and did very often. I saw a comment about that early on and took that advice. Then when there was times I could not comment on as many I didn’t feel bad because I was a regular contributor. Your site rocks and thanks a million. Do you feel the pat on your back? 🙂
I agree with Claudia. The good outweighs the not so good. What you have started here is a good thing. I think the sense of community is here, flaws and all. It is too bad some only want to link and run…that is truly their loss. I have learned so much and been so inspired by reading the work of others I have found here, and I believe I have become a better writer for it. As for my expectations, I read 25-50 links on OLN, depending on my day, and comment on most. I also make it a point to reciprocate if someone leaves a comment on my work. There may have been a couple here and there I’ve missed (my apologies!) but as a rule I do my best to hit everyone back. I admit that if I comment on someone’s work 2-3 times and they don’t visit me in return then I skip them come future link-ups. I may still read their work if I admire their writing, but I won’t waste my time giving props.
The hacking? I don’t know what to say. That surprised me that someone feels a need to do that, but then, I guess I am naive sometimes and shouldn’t be so surprised when people act selfishly.
Enjoy your break Brian. I hope you come back when you’re ready and knock our socks off with what you write!
Also ‘my expectations’ are just of myself and not of anyone else. I just don’t link if I can’t make what I feel are decent rounds.
…as Hedge says, I prefer people leave comments for the content, process, or to give advice and support rather than a token comment ..and the count is not a true measure, so it is not as important to me. However I hope my little statistics help you, Brian, in figuring out what is what. Thanks
bedtime for me…have to get up at 4 tomorrow….to catch a flight…smiles
Safe travels Claudia, no doubt the journey will provide some material along the way 😉
sleep well friend…about to take a break again and come back to read more in a bit…
Brian – and everyone here. I have only a thankful heart for you. For coming by, for leaving love, for having great conversations and posts, prompts and challenges. I hear where you are coming from. I admire your work, and for all those who tend bar here I am very thankful. I’m not always able to participate as much as I’d like but I am here reading, and sharing. And loving it. Please don’t stop sharing the smiles!
Whoever hacked that password should be ashamed of himself or herself!
I don’t have expectations, so much as hopes. The word “expectations” feels a bit too demanding somehow.
What are my hopes? To learn something, be inspired to write something, to read other people’s interesting poetry, and to attract readers and participants in my Limerick-Offs.
I do try to visit everyone who comments on my posts, though my visits often are several days after my site is visited. (My attention span problems worsen if try to visit poets as soon as their comments come in.) I hope my delay in visiting/commenting isn’t a problem for people!
As someone who runs my own limerick prompts, I have at least some small idea of what’s involved in creating and maintaining a poetry community. It’s a ton of work for you, I know, and though I suppose some people may take it for granted, I’m betting most do really appreciate what it is you and DVerse do for the poetry community … even if they forget to thank you from time to time.
But I feel disheartened myself sometimes, so I understand how you’re feeling. Of course today’s explosion incident at the Boston Marathon is itself so shocking and disheartening, it makes it hard for me to focus on anything else and reminds me to try to put things into perspective.
i hear you…the boston marathon explosion was my first stop when i got home as i wanted to get an update and it made me later getting here…ugh…its sapped a bit of energy as well…
it is a lot of work running a site…def one of the reasons i take the team approach…and the pub tender team are a great group of people…i could not do it without them….
perspective is def one of the things i am needing in my break…
hard for me to speak to expectations, wanting to share and share back, but not wanting to create a sense of forced commitment on anyone –
so sometimes i visit people’s sites before i get comments, sometimes after i get comments and i then return visits and hopefully add some, sometimes not able to
i myself do try to return visit to anyone who comments on my work, including “likes” and to respond to the comments on my site as well, i enjoy it
but the openness and freedom “to” participate, is as important as attempting to share feedback back & forth
there are those poets i’ve come to expect to enjoy 😉 and i try to visit when i can irregardless if they have commented on my own work, and whether they do in return when i visit their sites on my initiative
it’s all part of an organic process i think, and as per a few suggestions, a two site visit minimum might not be a bad idea if one wants to post their own work, or i should say, link one’s own work to dVerse
it’s one of the reasons i post less than i could (besides sheer lack of time), not wanting to commit people into thinking they “have” to visit or comment or like my post, and knowing that at times, my ability to “visit back” is severely limited
i post when i know i can, at minimum, visit two or more folk, either initially or in response
and i even try to warn if there might be a one or two day delay responding because of life-logistics
it’s a tough call, which / what to do, or expect, but dVerse is an invaluable site, and hopefully an accepted mix can be found
what would “i” think anyone else’s expectation should be? I don’t begin to remotely feel that’s my place
and re “When one of our poets recently hacked our password so they could enter the Linky before the opening, it made me really begin questioning what we do here….” –
this was obviously a tilting point occurrence, because the hacking incident in itself could have also happened via any uninvolved poet or hacker
which is still mostly all irrelevant –
my personal feeling is, this is brian and claudia’s site, it is not an elected government, or grant-supported project or such, and what they decide dVerse should be, is what it will be, and those who choose to continue to follow the site, is their choice
i have enough faith in those two guys that whatever directional change is made, if any, will be best for them, and thus for those they would like to lend emotional and creative support to
that insures that if the site continues, it also sustains claudia and brian, in whatever manner they deem they feel “they” need to continue
with that then 😉 best wishes all 😉
adan
I don’t expect anything… I come here and read the prompt and sometimes I write other times not. When I link I try and read at least a handful of other poems and I try and read some of the names that I haven’t read before. I don’t always comment as I am quite useless at that as a lot of the poetry I read (not just here) goes right over my head, I find it very hard to read poetry especially the ambiguous ones.
We shouldn’t expect anything from anyone, it is better to give than receive… if we expect then we only fall when those expectations falls.
hey just coming online…long day…will read through and respond…
I’ve loved dVerse from the get-go… I think because of the unconditional love and support, encouragement and high quality of poetry found here. Never have I felt a negative vibe or sensed that I wasn’t welcome. Everyone is happy to be participating.
Surprisingly, I’ve never had any expectations. I don’t expect people to comment on my blogs (although there is one who, for the life of me, I can’t understand why he/she never comments on anyone’s site), and when they do, it gives me a little hope… that maybe I actually am a poet after all. Right before dVerse opened, I was coming off a large round of rejections and feeling pretty low. Not for long, though. I appreciate all of you so much, especially you, Brian.
I do comment on my ten and more, but I must admit OLN is not my favorite. There are so many sites that offer that… it’s gotten to feel a bit impersonal on all of them. I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed these days and have decided to scale back, too. Maybe it’s in the air.
smiles…like i told you in an email the other day…sometimes i would love a little table in the back with just a few select friends…smiles….
i kinda look at OLN as our front door…anyone can come in the front door…
our prompts are like the living room…a little smaller, a bit more intimate…its easy to figure out who is not commenting or just link dropping and ignore them…ha….actually the return visits on prompts is by far better than OLN…
what i think is missing is that next level of intimacy where we get into each others stuff a bit…see my notes below on a thought…
That’s a good analogy… perhaps a little gathering in the kitchen would be the place to start. = )
Me, too!!
To begin with, I want to thank you, Brian and Claudia for giving us the opportunity to be a part of this wonderful community of poets. And in particular, for allowing me to be a part of the team. By becoming a part of the team, I quickly learned that I needed to limit my participation in other communities because of the time and energy involved. I even stopped my own prompts, feeling that it was more important to participate in an established community.
As for my expectations, I guess they are few except for the opportunity to read and especially to receive prompts that will tickle my own poetic muse. I feel that the overall quality of the dVerse posts is worth the time and effort to respond. I do visit my ten assigned posts for OLN faithfully, although being on the west coast and having assigned posts that go up quite late, it’s often not till Wednesday. During my stay in the desert it’s especially difficult because of the internet provider down here and its seeming dislike of my provider :0). I guess it’s that, but my limited knowledge of technology is an issue. I also visit as many other bloggers as I can. There’s a few favorites and I like to “meet” a few new folks each week too. I can’t say I get a lot of return visits except from the usual suspects, but I don’t try to keep track. Personally, I find the “Like” factor without a comment a disincentive and, depending on my time, I have begun not to visit those. I always try to visit those who leave comments. When I leave a comment, I try my best to avoid platitude and rather strive to say something that means something…either something I especially like, a comment about poetic technique or some way that the poem resonated with my own experience. Because of health issues (back and elbow pain) I could rarely visit everyone except on the days I hostess and when I read your post on your blog about taking a break I was oh-so-tempted to say “Oh, I’ll do your visits for you,” but knew I physically couldn’t. (I’m more than a little codependent…it’s a nurse thing).
The hacking thing is unfortunate and even a bit scary…just to know that one of our community has the ability and motive to do that makes me a bit paranoid.
There are times when I’ve been tempted to stop blogging so that I can devote more time to marketing my novels and writing more but I haven’t been able to do it. I just love being a part of this community and hope we can keep it together. My “cure” is to do just what you are doing. Take a break for a week or two–a real break. I try to make it known on my blog. Or, I limit myself to one post a week.
It might be interesting to do a poll on OLN…something about comments. Maybe those who don’t comment don’t care if they get comments. Maybe we should, as staffers, not have to comment. Although…I think everyone wants something. And maybe a how-to post about commenting would help those who might feel intimidated.
Expectations can hurt us if others don’t share the same goals. I guess it’s not a bad idea to adjust them if it keeps us together as a poetic “family.”
The intimidation part is a very valid point. I have been around a good time now but still I am intimidated indirectly by some poets here as they are well advanced in their craft compared to this northern thicko. I often read something and I enjoy reading it for what it is, but I simply cannot comment on the piece because I feel I have nothing worthy to say. So then I click like because I do ‘like’ what I read. But, that doesn’t prevent me from finding something I can comment on elsewhere most of the time.
I take regular breaks from playing poker. It can get pretty intense sometimes and a recharging of the old batteries is definitely called for. Theres no shame in taking a break, we all need one at some point for differing reasons.
I’ve always appreciated your comments, Tino. When I speak of the “Like” function, I’m referring to people who click like who are not a part of the community and don’t even post poetry or other forms of writing. It’s apparent that they are just out for visitors…some of them even spam-like.
A brief summary of comments seems to imply:
(1) If admins could ban those who don’t comment on other blogs, Mr. Linky could improve. Developing methods to make that work including warning to people who do this would take some voluntary police. Communities fall due to abuse of free-loaders — that is why rule-of-law evolved, no?
(2) Some people like warm fuzzies and collecting comments, some folks like craft and critical comments. These two folks don’t mix well.
(3) Clamoring to be first in line for Mr. Linky is silly – and reveals the nature of comment-collectors. Maybe people should start visiting Mr. Linky people from the back of the line.
(4) Everyone likes Brian and doesn’t want him discouraged.
(5) It is hard to visit writers you don’t like reading — even if they comment on your blog.
Personally, I think throwing up challenges for poems and giving only a few hours to write something lowers the quality of poetry and encourage people to treat the site (as HedgeWitch said) as purely a social interaction, or contest for comment counts. Of course some people get hints by Twitter, but this makes the whole Mr. Link cult very odd.
As for me, I have had the good fortune of folks blocking me from their sites, or telling me not to visit. So it cuts the number of folks I have to consider reading. I visit folks who return visits but usually only if they are folks who comments I value and are not just vacuous comments that could be cut and paste and put on any poetry blog and still make sense. But as I said in #2 — there are two different worlds here at least.
In the end, I think doing #1 would make a huge positive change on any poetry blog. Open Links are offered on other poetry blogs — why not keep OLN out of D’verse poets since it invites flooding. And how about lengthening the time to focus on craft to improve quality.
Not a bad idea, Sabio (re: focus on craft to improve quality). I’d love to see more constructive critique. I’ve invited it for my comments but rarely receive any. Meeting the Bar was supposed to entertain critique when we started out.
How do I give some constructive crit to someone who has just published a novel? I sent you some words for a prompt here a few weeks back. I had to check each word to see if it was a noun, adjective, etc etc. I haven’t got a clue about any of that stuff. I read, I write, thats about the sum total of my skill and I have little time or motivation to do anything about it I have more important things to focus on in my life, but I enjoy reading what you offer, so I read it and tell you I enjoyed it. Simple 😉
you def give some good suggestions sabio…and something i have been thinking about which is the crit and craft…it is something we offered before and luke put together a pretty amazing team that provided solid crit in effort or hope to transfer it to those that participated…did not work very well…again, lots of takers and lots that did not feel they could give crit or did not feel the need…
i have been kicking around the idea of a back room here at dverse for crit & craft….a small group if you will to start…with the expectation that after a certain time the group would split and then then each add new members…and letting it grow organically as people get comfortable with crit…think it would def need lots of structure and expectations to be a part of…
crit far more than soft encouragement has helped my writing far more than anything…there is a trust that has to be developed in crit…thus why i think it needs to be small..
another thought would be crit partners…because solid crit takes time…far more than regular commenting…
as to visiting writers you dont like reading…been around the world on that one…we are all at different levels in our writing…and i def abhor poetry snobbery…but there is poetry i dont enjoy, so i can see both sides…
A crit backroom is an interesting idea. I agree with what you said in regards to critique reforming your writing–deep revision is to writing what lunges are to exercise. No matter where you are in your poetry, a comment could be made to point you in a direction you didn’t think of or know existed. I can also see, though, why people would be skittish about critiquing. It is a tricky thing, knowing first what to comment on, and then second how to convey one’s critique without sounding like you’re dismissing all of the good things that are in the piece of writing. A critique that makes someone feel like they shouldn’t continue writing is backfiring on its own purpose.
I agree with many of the points brought up here. I enjoy all comments, but personally prefer the “tell me upfront what you like and what you don’t like” sort. When someone comments with something that I find fun or useful or interesting, I take a peek at their blog, read a few of the pieces they’ve put up, like or comment if I like the piece or think I can contribute by commenting. But if, for instance, I read a poem and find that I’m thinking mostly of critiques, I often won’t comment at all–because unsolicited critique can be rude, and blatantly ignoring critique to only say nice things feels a little dishonest. I am all for encouraging an interactive community, but mandated reciprocation would feel a little forced.
Addendum: I too like Brian and don’t want him to be discouraged. The pub tenders here have made me feel very welcome in very little time.
Brian and Claudia, I think you both set the tone at dVerse in such a positive and professional and caring way. You two are the gold standard , and I seriously think that the amount of time and energy you both put into this site is hard to keep up with on a regular basis. You are always above board, are not cliquey, do not show favoritism. There is reason why this site is as popular as it is. On Open Link Night when I visit people it is seldom I can get to a person before you do, Brian. You work your tail off. And Claudia, you are right in there too, commenting early our morning.
I can understand the burnout when you are not visited in return by many who you bust your buns to visit and comment. Like you, there are some that I pass by now, those who never visit anyone but just wait for someone to visit them. After a while, fair is fair. But like you, I visit everyone who visits me. I really don’t understand how people can think it right to entertain visits and not give in return. (I doubt these non-responders are even reading this.)
As for the password hacker in order to get an early placement in the lineup, that truly is sad that someone has to stoop to that. And I hope that comes to an end.
Brian, take your time off. You need a little R & R. And if/when you return, remember you are not superman., and don’t expect yourself to do quite as much as you do…..
And remember, Brian and Claudia, this IS the “Cadillac” of sites. Or should I say “Rolls Royce.”
ha. never had a caddy before…smiles…
this conversation has def given food for thought this week as i am away…appreciate the feedback from everyone on it…
“I doubt these non-responders are even reading this” — well, Mary.. i did… i must confess i am one of those who sometimes don’t pay visits to those who have cared leaving a note on mine… i am no ignorant of it… i just don’t know why i tend to do what i do despite of this awareness… maybe due to immaturity or maybe i wasn’t so good at interactions or socialization…
I have to start off by saying that I love these types of posts. The ones with the conversations about blogging, etiquette, commenting because they are one of the ways that dVerse is meeting my writing needs. I am guilty of committing the drive-by comment. ( I try hard not to do it to the writers who have said that they prefer to not receive those comments.) I do it because I am shy, and I usually need to develop some history of interaction or relationship before I can offer more detailed comments/critiques. dVerse has been a wonderful forum for letting me develop these relationships, and hopefully, develop as a writer. When I decided to become a member of this community, I set a goal for myself to comment on at least 10 links. Once I started regularly interacting with writers, I gave myself a goal to either comment on at least five links with which I was unfamiliar, in addition to any other comments I made. I also always try to return comments because, 1. I think that it’s fair and 2. I don’t want to miss out on anything. I have also started searching out links to bloggers who have written interesting comments on other people’s work. I am finding, as time goes by, that I begin not to like the bloggers who link and leave, and I am less likely to appreciate their work. So I stop commenting on those sites.
I have few expectations, but I do have some. I expect to learn from this site. This is another way dVerse excels in meeting my needs. All I have to do is participate and pay attention and I will learn something. I also expect people not to cheat and hack the site. It’s not a contest, don’t be a douchebag. (Okay, I apologize for calling you a douchebag (whoever you are), and for the unpleasant language.
I think that participating and community may, as in my case, require a learning curve. I am so grateful to Brian, Claudia, and all the wonderful bartenders for their patience and kind encouragement. Brian, you have done wonderful work, and it is very appreciated. Hopefully that will help with fatigue you are feeling.
Finally, I have two last expectations: 1. I will be very tempted to go look at the old linkies to see if I can figure out who cheated, and 2. At some point y’all are going to limit the length of my comments to these posts :-s. heidi
I haven’t been very active lately, but I’ll put my 2cents in.
The link list system is nice, but to be honest, if you happen to be >number 50 on the OLN list, you won’t get as many visits. That’s just the way it is. One can only tame one’s expectation when there are that many, and people can’t go to all of them. Sometimes I don’t even feel like putting myself into the link list when I’m that late (I’m always >no.100 anyway), because it makes no difference at all. I would visit the poets I like, pick a couple of new ones, and I’m satisfied.
I don’t know how the system can be improved. I’m against forcing people to comment by putting in a criteria that they have to comment. That’s worse, because you’ll just end up getting insincere comments. If people don’t even read and they are just checking in to make their assigned numbers, then I’d rather they not bother.
I do appreciate all comments. I try to return every one. If I really dislike something then I don’t comment. That’s really rare and probably has only happened once in my participation here.
Maybe dVerse doesn’t need OLN. OLN is an open mike thing, it does tend attract less than thoughtful work. I would rather dVerse have prompts that require thought and give more time for poets to do the prompts properly. It’s too fast currently. You have one day, maybe another half before everyone moves on. I can’t come up with a proper poem in one day… I know other people can, so usually I just don’t bother.
Sorry to hear about the hacking. Whoever did that is pathetic.
what is interesting on the prompts…is that the 33 hour time limit is about the life cycle of a prompt…after that time period, people just dont visit…there are hundreds of prompt sites out there…so what sets us apart? that is another question i have been pondering…
can def flip the stat as well and say that most people that pop in after #100 dont comment…i do like the question of does dverse need an OLN…for newer poets this might be the easier way as they can test the waters in a larger crowd…hmm…def something to think on…
I agree with RavenBlack: requiring comments may just make for a whole new wave of vacuous, perfunctory nicities. Hmmm, tough for a good solution. But we both agree that quick fast prompts encourage poems less quality.
I think post which demand form or some other constraint on a poems automatically keep numbers down — which is good. Some ignore the constraints — they should be taken off Mr. Linky. Again, I think Mr. Linky deputies would be a good idea.
really not even going to go the route of deputies…
hell, i ignore some restraints…and what is form but another thing to get our poetry going…rules stifle art as much as inspire it…so, would you kick me out of my own house?
I think Sabio is referring to prompts having objectives and set themes or form requirements generally lowers submissions by those who simply want to make numbers.
I don’t believe the deputy system would work in this community either. Having experienced being a community moderator, I can say that what will happen is that deputies would each work differently and that would only increase incidences of conflict and dispute over what and what isn’t allowed.
Hmmmm, good point Ravenblack.
I could think of two simple rules which would may deter:
(1) Must visit at least one other writer.
(2) Must mention d’Verse Poets on your post — not just in the tags.
In health care, when we required a $2 co-pay, it drastically reduced unnecessary visits. Those who jump dump poems on a Mr. Linky, are not the same people who would edit their post to mention all the places they are spamming.
oh i def feel you on the generic …terrific comment…or interesting…why is it intersting? and if you cant tell me, is it really interesting? ha and i def do think that there are plenty that never really read, just leave a calling card to be followed back…
i would be interested in further thoughts about the difference from one stop as the structure here is very similar to what we ran there…we run very similar volume to what we ran there for the most part as well…i think what has changed over time for me are the people…def some things to think on…
on several occasions, I have posted on my blog about my own shortcomings where commenting is involved. when I first started paricipating in online communities, I did so I I do with most social interactions…I sat back and enjoyed the conversation (or in this case clicked on as many links as possible and enjoyed what was offered). It took me quite sometime to become comfortable with commenting and honestly I still am far from comfortable. I actually took a hiatus from my blog for a good year because the social anxiety of an online community was wearing on me. I still do my best to force myself to interact (sometimes made easier when the act is reciprocated) — even if I don’t link in to a particular event. unfortunately, I will say the amount if time I spend laboring over the comments I leave limits the quantity I can touch on at any given free moment.
as for my expectations of others…I don’t hold my breath (except for you Brian ’cause you roll around like a breath of fresh air without fail).
I will say that I do enjoy the intimacy of FormForAll, Meeting the Bar, and Poetics. It is a lot easier to stop by everyone and leave more than just a handful of comments.
I will say lately I try to do two things, visit the people on either side of me and wait until Thursday and read the last five entries. Having experienced being the last one in (probably more than anyone else) I know how the visits dwindle.
I apologize for babbling too much—I know I have a tendency toward rambling—but I did want you to know that I appreciate all you and the other tenders do to make dVerse a welcoming environment.
A very good post. I have always had great respect for the people who organise this site. I have missed quite a few prompts I would have loved to do because I have just been too busy. I have decided to give up open night because there are just too many poems and I can’t address most of them. I wont post if I cannot address the prompt with respect or give the time to read and comment on others work. Please know that I appreciate coming here. With love Tigerbrite
I came here with few expectations, except to share my poems, read other people’s, and maybe learn a thing or two. And so it has been.
The expectations of the community that we must comment back to everyone who comments on our work, and do our best to read as any as we can of the enormous number now contributing, were a bit startling – but heck, its a community, I want to participate and fair’s fair, so I do my best.
Well guess what, it’s impossible! At least, if I wish to have an offline life as well. I can well understand why you are reviewing how to spend your time. I have much appreciated your frequent generous responses to my poems – and also have wondered how you can keep up the pace, knowing I am far from the only one to benefit from your comments.
For myself, I have got to a point where I know I must be missing out on lots of wonderful poetry, but I am not going to read more than a few from each list. I do notice who visits my blogs, though, and if I don’t catch you this time, I will some time in the near future.
Poetry is my joy, both writing my own and reading others’. I don’t want to turn either activity into a chore.
Correction: ‘to read as many as we can …’ (par 2)
…i can only sigh here Brian… but i have same realizations as Joy Ann… when i first discovered dVerse and still writing behind the shadow of windowlad OLN was my fave segment… because i care more of soliciting comments for my works back then… and one way to do that was to link my poem in OLN where many were also linking… but as i go along i realized i am just fooling myself and OLN became a less interest of mine…. for my goal was achieved in a wrong way… now i write as Kelvin…and i have come here for the sake of poetry with the hope i am not the only one…
kelvin, i appreciate you…i have thought of you the last week…as i am considering a change myself…a new name…a new identity and a chance to start over…i did not start a poet but a story teller…even still i am just a storyteller…poetry is just the medium of the moment…smiles.
…i deleted windowlad because he is my ghost… the part of me that never became strong enough to face the real world…. he occupied most of the spaces & roles i should have filled-in… i let him dominates my life to the extent i wasn’t sure already ‘who i am’… like what you’re facing these days i decided to re-charge… have a brake… a long departure… a retreat… and it took me more than half a year not writing anything… not engaging anywhere… to anyone… i just live life… feel the heat of the sun… the blowing of wind… enjoying love & care of my family… find time laughing and finding truth in there… i hate windowlad for stealing all of these things in me… but i also thank him…. because he made me realized so many many things in life i didn’t bother to think nor enjoy before because i became contented with what windowlad had done in my behalf….
…Brian i hope you will find & discover a deeper you in this break… you’re a good friend & motivator and for that I thank you… smiles…
Brian – will miss you this week – seeing your name in the comments sections always makes me smile in amazement at your ability to provide not just small, but in depth comments! It’s hard in life to have high expectations of others. It’s my feeling that most of the time, not every one can meet the expectations imposed. I know for myself, I don’t usually participate in open links because I know I’ll never be able to visit all the links! You have done incredible work here and at so many sites! I hope you’ll get rest and come back kicking – well, maybe just writing!
i will say this…it is impossible to visit everyone…i tried and it eventually broke me…ha…i will be back soon enough, in one form or another…smiles.
Honesty is always the best policy and articulating your thoughts, feelings, expectations, hopes and position is an excellent beginning.
My experience with sites is that they have their own organic process of development and often that can be at odds with the expectations of the person who set it up. The internet offers a wonderful opportunity for people to come together and connect, communicate and possibly learn. But everyone is an individual and you cannot expect everyone to want the same, see things in the same way, have the same needs or react as you would like. Beyond people who are actively unpleasant on a thread I think there needs to be a lot of give and take with such sites.
I would think it fair to say we are all here because we write or care about poetry. How we write or how we care is up to us as individuals and cannot be dictated. Some people set up sites, and I am not saying this of you Brian, where they wish to manage, monitor and at times dictate how people ‘speak’ on the site, what they talk about and what they say and that can never work for those who believe in freedom of expression and robust engagement. So what happens is that everyone but those who are prepared to ‘fall into line’ with the ‘boss’ of the site ultimately leaves and you get one dominant personality with a bunch of acolytes and that becomes boring.
The price of independence and individuality is disappointment, at times frustration, perhaps even annoyance or anger, but the gift in it all is original, independent, robust, interesting exchange of views and in this case, poetry.
It also has to be remembered that not everyone has the time or the ability to read and comment on other people’s poems – certainly not all of the time. I have just come through a period where family demands made even accessing most sites like this impossible and when I could, reading other poetry or commenting was just not possible. I doubt I am alone. I do my best to access a couple of other sites most times and to read and to comment and I suspect most people do the same.
Perhaps like many things in life Brian it is not that there is anything wrong with dverse, it is just that it is not what you wished, planned, or hoped it would be and managing our expectations realistically is a process which has to be applied to all relationships whether they are parents, partners or other poets.
you are wise…and your words weigh well…smiles…tonight has helped me regain a bit of clarity and perspective…
This just makes me so sad. The frustration is understandable – you do so much. Whoever hacked the site – really to what end? – is just very sad. Any writer that has been brave enough to link up and share has received thoughtful and good natured encouragement. This community has meant so much to me – Brian and Claudia in particular, have been supportive to my writing and I am better for having stumbled across dVerse. I have read truly remarkable work by so many talented poets- many poems I have saved and go back to often. Not everyone takes the time to respond or comment and I know I have been lax in this regard some weeks. I don’t know the answer to the frustration but I hope that you can take a break, renew your energy and find that there is more worthwhile than not.
All the best
its not so much commenting…or commenting on me…or one particular person…the number of people that link drop has just grown rather tremendous…and then on top of that to have the linky hacked…it really was disheartening..and got me to questioning what we are all about….its been good to hear everyones perspectives…
Ugh…hacking just to be #1? that is really disappointing… as far as expectations… I don’t have any really. The last few times I’ve posted here I haven’t even read the comments. (I appreciate them but I’ve come to realize it’s best to not know what people think of my work). for a looooong time (I was apart of this problem) my main goal was to be in the top when I used to post every week.. but since I’ve changed the way I blog, because I know what’s important now. anyways I personally feel I’m bad at commenting on others, but I do go back to visit who’ve come to mine… (tho I’d rather not comment if I don’t care for the poem) honestly, it doesn’t phase me if someone doesn’t come back. There’s a certain poet I’ve visited plenty of times yet has never commented back… I just figure the poet doesn’t like my work… glad to have read this… I’m not as active in the blog/twittersphere like I used to, but please don’t think I’ve forgotten that my poetic home is with you guys (dverse/one stop)
smiles…it is good to see you friend…and now that i know you dont read my comments i will leave you something funny next time i am there…ha…change i think is something coming to me as well…smiles.
I cannot help but compare dVerse with Poets United. In the early days when Robb Lloyd (who is gone for quite a while now) started Poets United and some of us got involved at the ground floor we had a great community feeling and knew everyone; there was a lot of cameraderie and a strong feeling of being part of a special place. I was not familiar with One Stop then, and blogging /linking was very new to me then; but it sounds as if that is what One Stop was for some people. Maybe these were the ‘good old days,’ never to return in the same way. And we can’t return to these days, even though perhaps we would like to…..
I must also say that Poets United has an Open Link, and I would say 70 percent (rough estimate) of the people don’t comment on others’ work either. As I work through the links, it will often be lucky to see that two people have commented on a poster’s poem (not counting Sherry or me), but perhaps that poster hasn’t commented on anyone’s either. It is disheartening really for those who are sincere about commenting (and there are some), and I can understand how eventually they will give up the effort as well. I think lethargy spreads lethargy eventually.
I write poetry because I like to write poetry. I wrote poetry for years without a comment. I am honestly a little confused about all of the conversation about commenting, not commenting, commenting on those who comment on yours and so on.
I want to read and write poetry because it is refreshing and life giving ~ not because it’s another job. I imagine I’m not alone.
charityv,
If you write to write, why not just keep your poems in your desk drawer or on your hard drive. I imagine you post on a site because you want others to read. Commenting is a way of showing we are reading and not JUST expecting others to read ours. But moreover, commenting is a way to give thoughts about the content and the craft of the writer.
Sabio,
I actually kept them in drawers, and books and shared them briefly with friends as gifts or notes or cards. It was a professional artist who challenged me to begin to share, and receive feedback on my work. I post as a challenge. I post to give my words room to breath and because so many friends have encouraged me not to keep these poems to myself. I post because it is selfish to assume these words were only meant for me.
The comments are lovely, they’re just not a motivating factor.
one stop was a poetry site that leslie moon, pete marshall, adam dustus and i started prior to dverse…claudia, gay and chris were on staff there as well…i dont campare the two honestly…it was a first of its kind and thus has the same love a first lover might have…no one will ever quite reach though many have tried..ha…it was different…
i think too—addressing charity—is how poets sharpen one another…we have had the conversation around a few times now here at pretzels…and i think that there are those that would like a bit meatier critique…its the figuring out of how that works…
i think as well that another job is what it is at times…to those that run sites like this…or maybe the danger of it…which is why i am taking time away, for sure…
I have to admit I am one of the people who don’t comment on a lot of poetry. And my posting is irregular. I do always comment on some and I always return comments thought. Apologies for that, but for me, writing is really time-consuming and so is properly reading and digesting the writing of others. And I feel like there are some really outstanding writers here, and I don’t always feel like I can add anything of value to for them. I think too as the community grows it gets more and more difficult to both connect with those already here and also visit new people, just because of the volume. And this month I have been even worse than usual because I’m trying to do the poem a day for the month, and for me that’s really a challenge. (In fact it’s 8:20 pm now and I have not one decent line written for today – ug). Brian I absolutely can’t believe how many people you give good, thoughtful comments too, and still find the time to write so much really high quality poetry…not to mention live a life! Marian and Beth the as well. I’m sorry that I don’t participate much, but I certainly do appreciate the Pub and all of you who keep it running. That’s lame, but…I don’t know what else to say, :o( and now I’m going to try and go write something.
And that was not supposed to be a smiling or laughing face – typo.
Well said.
thats ok…we like smiles around here…smiles.
if you are looking to write something…write me a poem about grilled cheese….smiles…its the prompt i have always wanted to use, but never have….ha…every time tash asks it is what i tell her to write on…
Thank you Rosross. I should repeat that I REALLY APPRECIATE this forum and all the people who work so hard to keep it going.
I would just add it never occurred to me that being first mattered. I usually start at the bottom and pick people I know or those with interesting names. But I don’t think the commenting is quite as important as some might think because most of it is ‘warm fuzzies’ and few people make any critical or truly meaningful comments. I certainly am happy with ‘cold pricklies’ as comments but I doubt many are …. it seems to be the nature of literary sites these days.
From my way of thinking what matters about such sites is not so much what others think of your work but the opportunity to put your work out there, in the hope that someone might appreciate reading it. If they do it is great, if they don’t it is fine and comments are probably neither here nor there except they indicate you have been read. Perhaps a Read button would help…. or just the Like button.
Wow,
I dropped on in as I often do, as you are one of a few poetry sites I enjoy being challenged by. I look forward to the warm and welcoming blogs, the challenging posts, the reflective sharing, and an occasional welcome to any include any type fo poetic response.
I was shocked to find a family meeting of such depth tonight….
Truthfully, in light of the real tragedy and heartbreak in Boston today, I thought there might be an invitation to express sympathy, comfort, hope, or sorrow in our poetry.
Reflection and feedback are fair, but I’ll go ahead and admit I read about the first 20-30 comments before my focus starting drifting. I will join in with the kudos to BRIAN MILLER who somehow manages to comment regularly on my blog whether or not I link, visit and comment on virtually every other blog I visit, and engage in meaningful life experiences which he expresses so well in his own poetry.
Life is a roller coaster. Sometimes I have gobs of time to participate, and other days I just read, or add my link because I do enjoy the feedback of a visitor here or there. Like the grandma happy to have a few mouths to feed, readers do offer helpful feedback (about the darkness of your background, or the annoying captcha step) as well as their own connections to your work.
I really do hope a few bad apples, the growing size of this site, and the potential loss of intimacy do not cause those who gave it birth to turn away in scorn.
There are still so many people who enjoy the life and fellowship of your pub, even if we don’t make it by every night.
Prayers for wisdom, grace, and tenderness in a world that needs safe places more than ever!
yeah…this was up before the tragedy in boston…i will be honest its been a nice distraction a bit as what is happening in boston is aching my heart…and been helpful as well in regaining some perspective and direction for me…so true on safe places…
actually i really enjoy these conversations we have about once a month…it is refreshing to have candid conversations as well as write poetry…
so is comparison
So many wonderful comments, I have only recently joined the Pub. I read quite a few pieces written on the ‘Monster’ in dVerse and had only a couple of comments in return, but this is life in the fast lane, sadly sometimes not a two way street. I haven’t had the time since joining a couple of days ago to stretch my legs and take a proper look around in here, but I shall do so as soon as time permits. I also agree whole heartedly with what Charity has so eloquently written. Thank you both for putting up a site where we can fuse our brains and rise to the challenge/s! 🙂
Your frustration is understandable, Brian, and I think taking the time to rethink your position and what you expect from this group is a good move. Only you can come up with the answers for yourself.
I learned a long time ago that to have expectations of others is to for sure suffer disappointment. I still do have expectations though…it’s a hard behavior to unlearn…and sometimes I’m happily surprised by the outcome…other times not.
I love being a part of dVerse even though since I’ve moved and am spending so much time with my granddaughter, I’m not joining in as much as I once did. I do try and return the favor of those who comment on my posts and sometimes go out of my way to visit those persons that I am not as familiar with rather than visit the “regulars.”
I don’t even know how to respond to the hacker incident. I’ve noticed the “one-up-man-ship” on your blog, Brian, where people vie to be number one…I frankly don’t get it.
One question: Do all who participate in linking have the commitment to visit 10 people or is that for the administrators only? I don’t recall ever getting that memo if so. And if it is the case, perhaps a mention of that each week would be helpful. Or maybe think about incorporating a number of poets we must visit like Jingle did with her 18…remember those days? If it’s a more structured requirement maybe that would weed out those who can’t step up…and apparently are causing you distress.
I’m grateful to you, Brian, and all the administrators here who give tirelessly of themselves to offer a quality space to learn and grow in our craft.
it is just the administrators that have the 10…and the purpose is to ensure that everyone received at least one visit.
ha yeah i remember those days…i dont know that dictating a number does anything, i do know it creates tension if someone has to monitor and confront…and its about more than commenting..
spending time with your grands is a wonderful thing…keep that up…smiles.
Well, well, I am restricted juggling work, home, kid and poems…..but I do try to do a bit of reading others too. in fact, now if i post to a prompt or verse then I do try and read others on the same page. and i have seen that if i read the reciprocation is def. there. no hard feelings if some of those whom I read do not come by…we all have our own world to live and deal with….and this pub is one place where we seek peace, happiness, relax a little apart from some wonderfull poetry!!!:)
very cool convo….have no time to read now but will save it on my phone and read on the way… see you for OLN later…
Oh this made me sad to read. I myself have been distant for the last month in some ways. So physically and emotionally drained and I have been guilty of remembering to link and then not reading much later on when I get home because of just stress. But I can own that and do a better job. Takes a rest if you need it. Whoever hacked the site…I have no words for that- that is not only rude but ridiculous.
I also wanted to say that I agree about OLN. I love the concept but I tend to get really overwhelmed when I see how much there is to read since Tuesday is laundry night and I don’t always get to sit down. I wish I knew the answer to get things back in swing.
Today’s events in Boston were humbling for me and showing me where priorities need to be. A part of me wants to write more and part of me knows that my spouse feels left out when I spent the night reading. It’s a tough place because I love the reading but don’t know what to say a lot of the time even if I love the poem.
My two cents. First off, I’ve said it before: Brian Miller must have three clones in order to visit all the sites at which he leaves salient, uplifting comments. I mean, not just “You rock” and crap like that. Brian, you work so hard, perhaps too hard… I think a break is not a bad thing if you need it. Lord knows I’m five poems of mine behind in visiting MY commenters. I don’t even leave responses to comments anymore, unless it’s especially potent. I try to click on as many links as I can, except I’m often a day or so late… OLN is completely overwhelming, but I’ve made new friends by not going to the “usual suspects,” including you, Brian, because you already have 89 comments by the time I get to your blog! Claudia, the same. And so many newer poets need encouragement.
Back to my blog and trying to catch up. Sorry about the hacker, the mishigoss of it all… And, as Gretchen said, today’s horrific events sort of leveled me, but not in a good way. Shaved the tips off my spikes, you know?
Brian, do what is best for YOU. Listen to your own heart, think about your family and all. I honestly am worried for your health, at the rate you go. Love, Amy
One more thing I would like to say is, I came from a group of poets who were (some of them don’t write and post anymore) and are much better than me. That was RWP and Big Tent. But we were relatively small and we had camaraderie, in that we were supportive of each other. If, I don’t like something, I would never, ever insult somebody saying there work wasn’t up to par. I find that behavior deplorable.
Also if I have a hard time trying to convey how I feel about a piece, instead of looking like a fool, I won’t say anything. In all, I have had pleasant exchanges here with OLN. Being on the poetry sites can be somewhat like sitting in a living room which is entirely much too small, that is how I feel.
Pamela ..I too would not want to hurt anyone’s feelings or be the instrument to stop them having a go in the future.
Pamelita, me three! I know that dverse can seem awfully vast… on Tuesdays, if I don’t get to my computer at the right time, I’m #149… humbling, that. But I always try to make my critiques useful, such as a typo, in case the poet plans on publishing later on… feelings are more easily hurt when the message is on a screen or in a note than in person. A
I do like the idea of a more in-depth critique type of scenario. I tend to look at true crit as much like choosing a mentor. I wouldn’t pick just anyone to mentor me and for that reason I never saw dVerse as a place for full-on critique….there are just too many poets, styles, tastes, levels of achievement for me to feel that could be effectively possible. Not to say dVerse wouldn’t be able to do this, I just never saw the site this way, especially OLN. I simply saw it as a place to read and share poetry. But I really like this ‘smaller’ idea…I have no suggestion on how to do it though…ha…
i’m kicking around a few ideas…and i agree, not just anyone can be your crit partner…so many of the intangibles come into play and the room for bent feelings becomes immense as well…
One problem with constructive criticism, no matter how well-intentioned, is that the blogger reads it off a screen. It’s the coldest way to deliver a messsage… plus, a lot of bloggers tend to either skip the process notes – or be in such a hurry to read and comment that they miss the point entirely. A shame, because I read every comment thoroughly and take it all to heart, with no bias. Amy
I rarely visit OLN and don’t think I’ve joined but once. dVerse Poets Pub is, for me, the most wondrous place all other days, though, because of the prompts themselves. I come to savor the pub tender’s artistic expression, even if I know I won’t have time to write anything myself for a given prompt. What you all have given us is nothing short of spectacular, day after day, week after week. I am blown away by the creativity of the prompt ideas, love so much the way you each take such care in crafting your prompts, tweaking them here and there for greater interest/impact. I thank you for all the research you do to enhance your prompt ideas, and for selecting the most fitting art/photography to stir our senses and bring your descriptions to life.
What can I say? I love this place and feel deep gratitude to you for the pub, the prompts, the comments, the community. You have helped me to develop my writing so much and have introduced me to some of the best poets in the world today. I have yearned to read each post by others and my expectation of myself to do so has evolved into frustration time and again. Thus, I have tried to ease up on myself and have found that by doing so I get around to more blogs than I used to when I felt pressured.
I cannot think of a more artistically important blog existing out there, and am positive that if dVerse had been in Blogger format rather than WordPress you would have been recognized as a Blog of Note long ago. You deserve that kind of recognition, and much more. So thank you, you who had the original vision to begin this, and all the tenders who have graced us with your brilliant ideas ever since. Long live the Pub. Cheers!
It’s very much all been said by others commenting, but I wanted to add my own thanks for the work of the dVerse team and anyone who has taken the time to read and comment on anything I’ve posted. I am a relative latecomer to dVerse and I don’t always post these days because I feel it’s not fair of me to post unless I can commit the time to read, appreciate and comment on the work of others posting on the night – the sheer volume of contributions can feel quite overwhelming. But I do hope to continue visiting and learning…. I’ve always found this to be a wonderfully supportive environment for all. So, thank you.
I’m going through a really dry time at the moment due to the circumstances that hit the potter and myself last November. So in all of this dVerse and you yourself have had a steadying influence. I follow now on both blog and twitter and it’s obvious that it is the most respected of the poetry sites on the web. I agree with you that we often have expectations that get smashed through the every day situations that we encounter in out lives…my sister and I have a little joke between us…well it’s the family illness…paranoia!!! hard at times to see the wood for the trees. Be encouraged by the number of caring comments above this small one.
sorry…just another thought…I feel very privileged to be accepted as part of this group…and I do feel that. Another group that I wrote for initially seemed to me to be a clique and rightly or wrongly I felt excluded from the inner “gang”…of course that may just be the family illness again!!!! (you know the old paranoia!)
Not long back from my hols and will be posting something new tonight. This is a brave and straight talking post and dialogue that I really appreciate – somewhat overdue and I think, because it feels like it needs saying and discussing and is very much in the best traditions of dVerse,as I have come to know it only recently…The first thing I would like to say is to strongly encourage and re-affirm the positive. Let’s not forget what a bright, shiny and amazing achievement dVerse is, with OLN still as its lead stallion! And how grateful we should be to those that brought it to life and whose energies keep it going – appreciated by so many and makes a real difference, in terms of supporting and encouraging creative release. As a famously philosophic poet! I also can’t help but be aware that there will always be a few that abuse any opportunity that life gives them – that is human nature and the way it has to be, both as an instruction and corrective… but that shouldn’t stop the rest of us sharing our light and generosity. My own approach mirrors Pamela’s the most I think – I will always visit and try and comment on all those that leave a response to my work – out of common courtesy. I too have faves I will always go to, but will always try and find time to visit & comment positively on a few I haven’t tried before – without ever having any hope of matching the truly Herculean efforts of those like Brian & Tony… However I do also consider creative integrity is also important here – I am not going to praise someone’s work simply because they have praised mine! If something doesn’t touch me at all (which inevitably is going to happen sometimes to us all…) then I merely will visit without making a comment. Equally, if I stumble upon what I think is a brilliant piece of writing, then I am going to say so loudly, irrespective of whether that poet ever dains to comment on my own work – because that is how I see it. It helps no one for a poor writer (and that is another key truth in life – there are plenty poor writers around…) to be allowed to imagine that are good – BUT equally all of us, at whatever level we are at, can be sensitively supported, encouraged and indeed inspired to write better – to me that is what dVerse is about… Let’s keep on keeping on!
Well said, Scott. Light and generosity is a good policy. Hope the holiday was terrific.
hey man…welcome back…and def appreciate your words…and i agree in regards to what it is all about…
Hacking! How does one do that. I still have not mastered the art of linking .
More seriously my life was made hell two years ago with a poet hacking into my blog.
It is no laughing matter and should be treated as such.
I had no idea that one was expected to give 10 comments. Is this true? If I had known this I would not have participated.
I think one should gauge their popularity as a poet by the number of comments they receive. Having the dubious honour of being probably the least popular poet in the blogosphere I would like to say I do not have a problem with poets not commenting on my work at all.
I do not expect it as a matter of course. If they like it, I am sure they they would comment. I only comment on poems that I like as well.There should be no obligation.The most important aspect of being a poet is to enjoy writing. Comments are just a welcome bonus. If you get one sincere comment from someone who enjoys your poem I think that is a truly marvellous experience and makes it all worthwhile.
Thank you to Brian and Claudia for their hard work ,their dedication to poetry and for providing this venue for poets.
PS
If for some reason I am found to have an attitude problem or not to be a team player
( traits regarded as a fashionable necessity these days I believe) please inform me by personal email rather than a disagreeable and very public summary execution. Such was my experience from the deplorably rude bloogster who runs a type of toad sanctuary garden blog ,last year!
Good morning Cressida,
Just to clarify, it is only us bar tenders who have been requested to visit at least 10 links so everyone at least gets one visit from the Dverse Team during OLN. On other days like Thursday and Saturdays, visits are voluntary. Since the links are smaller, we actually get to visit most if not all of the links. Thank you for sharing your thoughts ~
Grace
Dear Cressida, I’m not an administrator, just a contributor… sorry you had a bad experience at Toads.
I sometimes get challenging comments at my blog, calling out my faith, etc., questioning my values. That’s fine with me. dverse folks tend to go out of their way to be nothing if not kind, particularly in a public forum like this one.
I get lots of comments, but I don’t think I’m a better poet – nor worse – than anyone else. Like you, I’m my own poet. I like what you do! All take care, and may peace reign here at the pub, because the microbrews are spectacular! Amy
Thank you Amy! Sigh…we live in a time that no longer tolerates eccentricity. There is a compelling pressure to conform to the norm or be ostracised (Boo..hoo!)
In my world, I strive to change systems before I work on individuals — finding that the most effective method. After reading the whole new bunch of fine comments, I think that Mr. Linky etiquette is part of the problem.
Suggestion:
(1) Admins themselves should not jump into the first slots of Mr. Linky. This looks like inside privilege and inadvertently broadcasts that if you are up first, you get read more.
(2) But better yet, for each post, put up a “Mr. Linky Today” etiquette suggestion like:
(a) please read 2-3 people infront of you and return to read 2-3 people behind you and then those you like.
or
(b) please start from the back of the line and read the poets you wish to read in that order
or
(c) today, read in a random order please
or
(d) read from the front of the line today
That may subvert Mr. Linky greediness.
Lastly, I would make it a hard requirement that folks give HT to d’Verse (not in tags/categories), or their link will be removed from Mr. Linky.
Those two changes may improve stuff a bit.
My algorithm for visiting others is:
(1) I visit those I have learned to enjoy
(2) I visit those who comment on mine, if their comment is substantial.
(3) sometimes, sometimes, I splurge to revisit folks who never comment or new folks.
I think that algorithm is generalizable in a Kantian way so as to be fairly morally sound. 🙂
In other words, if others did the same, both the number and the quality of comments would increase. But it would only increase to a tolerable level to each poet.
I think if poetry blogs offered different themes, it would improve things. For instance, I strongly dislike reading poetry that is based of fitting a set of words into the poem or that are based on some random art work or photo. But that is me. LOTs of folks love that. I love trying to write under form constraints or on ideas — but lots of folks dislike that. I also love hearing the opinions of other people — common folk, folk who may not be skilled or amazing. I want to know how my poems affect people. So even if they are lousy poets (like me), I value their opinions, because I am writing for common folks. But some folks dislike these sort of comments. THus, if the various poetry blogs divided up these sort of things, and made their emphasis clear and recommended each other for the different themes, this may be helpful.
Sorry, rambling — but I love thinking about improving systems and Brian and Claudia and the rest of the admins put in tons of love to this site. Much appreciated. I day dream of someday starting my own site, in a few years, with its own unique theme to meet the needs of a small subset of writers. I learn from watch you folks talk about your efforts. Thanx. The internet is changing all of us and it is in constant flux. Who knows what tomorrow brings.
BTW — I just signed my son and myself up for a FREE college level course on a cool site called https://www.coursera.org/ — this is an example of how things are changing. Consequently, I may not be posting for a while. Certainly not on OLN, which, after reading all these comments has helped confirm is perhaps the best to avoid for now — as it is often an unrewarding time sucker.
#1….it is admin privledge….and they probably out comment most everyone else or they would not have the position…which is why they get more comments, not position on the linky….and i dont mind them having that privledge for all the work they do…its all volunteer….no one makes money…
it also keeps everyone else for fighting over 1st spot…and frees them up to be welcoming people as they come in the door…
But that is my point, Brian, why is being FIRST a privilege? By doing so, it reinforces the notion that those up front should be visited more. IMHO.
Yes, i truly respect all the hard, free volunteer work and commenting. I am point at something different. But you disagree, that is cool. I just wanted to share one opinion.
Sabio, think of # 1 as being a host welcoming everyone to the pub. And naturally,
the pub tenders or host get more comments because we visit more links than anyone else. Brian and Claudia comments on most or all of the poetry links, so naturally some people reciprocate their visits. Put a poet in #1 or # 10 whom no one knows or have no connection, do you think he or she will get more comments…I think not. Wherever you are in the number, people will look for your name because they like you and know that you interact with their poetry.
OK, well I guess you and Brian disagree. Then I must say, I have no clue why Brian would care in the least if someone figured out how to get into the number one or number two slot. If what you say is true, it shouldn’t matter at all. And indeed, I don’t think it matters at all. I think Brian cares because for some reason it does matter to him. But from your and his responses, I am still puzzled why it should matter. But that is cool. Just thought I’d offer my opinion. I won’t be checking back here again, so pls email if you write something you’d like me to hear. Thanx
Oh yes, I think this is a fantastic site and everyone’s efforts are wonderful.
I am dying to see what happens on OLN today! 😉
I am not anxious to see what happens in America after being hit by probable terrorism yesterday and learning that we may have to live like much of the world, in constant fear. Islands of sanity are the best we can hope for through our days, eh?
Amen, Sabio. I think this was some wacko from the radical fringe of the NRA, personally. At the very least, home-grown… so sad, but Americans are actually a bit spoiled. This took the whole news cycle yesterday, even pre-empting (gasp!) SOAP OPERAS. And yet we bomb half the Middle East back tot he Stone Age daily and don’t even mention the number of civilians our military has killed…
Brian,
I loved OneStop and I love dVerse. If you noticed, I only joined dVerse more than one year after OneStop because I was not certain I would be able to dedicate the effort, energy and time.
I often take breaks – it helps me tremendously. So when we give, we give it our all. When we rest, we rest totally. I also take breaks when my poetry suffers.
I guess what I am trying to say is – please treat yourself to the blue skies up on the mountain, the scent of perfume from a memory, even a dozen Dragonlance books. The world has had its terrors that we shared, you had your students’ funeral, you were so sick – and throughout all that you still commented on our poetry. And we love you for that.
But we need you to be happy with what you do, oh, I hope this does not come out wrongly….
Simply, I love dVerse. Even when I do take breaks…you need to know that.
I had no idea. Brian, you are like The Rock on here. Not everyone can do what you do. And I think what we’re all trying to say is that if you “take a break,” we won’t hold it against you. We’ll only miss you.
Keep up the great work.
Cheers.
Brotherman, I understand.
My expectations for this place were tiny: I just liked having a place where I can read / sample many different types of writers. Admittedly, I have a hard time with many of the poems (I’m not such a good Poetry reader), but I made it a personal policy to leave sincere (if sometimes brief) comments when something moved me. Also, I never presume to criticize anyone as I do not feel qualified for such work. I never expected so many people to come to my site from here, and it’s very gratifying to have others comment positively.
Relative to being hacked so they could be commenter #1, sorry – I have no time for such empty folderol. Let me be clear: I don’t comment just to get comments back and I don’t give empty compliments and I expect the same respect.
I always appreciated the Herculean effort you made to always say something positive to every single poet. Rare indeed were poems I comments where you hadn’t been there first.
Take all the time you need, I will keep in touch via personal email – I’m very happy to have made many friends here, and your friendship has been nothing short of a blessing.
Moskowitz the Humbled
This was an amazing post, in pat because of the substantive comments. It has made me realize how crippling expectations can be and has helped me readjust some of my own. Thanks, Brian.
What a great open discussion here. I read half of the comments so far but I have to put my two cents in before I go over my bedtime..
I want to say that I really don’t know how Brian and Claudia get so much writing and commenting done. Seriously, you two are inspiring and I love checking in your blogs to read the wonderful things you write. Brian and Claudia aren’t the only two that give dVerse a community vibe for me which makes dVerse fantastic. Other poets are just as generous and wonderful with their poems and comments, and I hope the supportive community vibe gets bigger and bigger.
A part from reading other people’s work, I also love hearing genuine feedback. Genuine. I’d hate to think someone would post just to “be nice” or “to expect I’d comment back.”
More than the feedback, though, I adore the poetic challenges. The feedback is important to me because the sense of community is valuable. Really, the feedback is phenomenal but without the challenges there’d be nothing special about dVerse.
I not only love poetry but I love improving my poetic craft. So I may not get my Poetic post within time (or even at all) for the challenge, but I get it done regardless because that’s the point; getting something done that I can be proud of. It might take me a little longer to post sometimes, but I make a point of commenting to at least 5 poets whether or not I share my writing.
Brian, this was an honest and heartfelt post. I think it’s natural when you help create something to have certain expectations, so often we get disappointed. I’m sorry you feel that way at present. Firstly I think you and all who helped create and keep this site going do a marvelous job. It takes dedicated individuals with a real passion to keep a site like this going and improving as you, Claudia and others have done. The amount of work you all put into it I think you deserve to have your expectations met.
I know from my point of view I try to comment on as many as I can, certain days, as in the last weekend due to commitments I maybe later and miss some people but I always try to get back to them even if it means at the next prompt I go back and comment on the one I missed. I realise there are some who will never comment back and I figure okay…I don’t know why but sometimes if I like the poetry I still visit and comment…although that does where thin eventually.
I also realise that some poets have a certain standard they want met when they read a poem… or they at least want some kind of literary merit met, or form etc… I can understand that and feel quite chuffed if they consent to give me a comment. Makes me feel I’ve accomplished something… and must admit feel a little daunted when I comment on such poets work in case I say something silly but that’s my hang up and I usually do and think okay…what will be will be!
I believe though you do have to make the effort to comment, even if you don’t fully understand the poem, or you can see this is someone who is new to poetry just to give them a feeling they belong…that’s after all what a community is…and it’s about encouraging people to keep going and not give up because we all have to start somewhere. I think that’s something we should never forget and hats off to you and Claudia because you always make us poets feel good about what we’re doing.
All things take time to really come together, I know I worry over silly things about do I know this person well enough to use their first name etc…silly I know but when online obviously you don’t have that eye to eye contact and it takes time to build a relationship…and also I think writing and publishing have changed so dramatically, so many ways to publish your work that the marketing monster gets involved which is a shame. It needn’t happen if someone reads your work they will seek you out anyway.
I may have gone off course here but in the end my expectations from my end are met…I like to write, I love to read poetry and dverse allows me to do both. I thank you for the time you put in and I hope your break energises your batteries but we all need to have a break, voice our concerns and think what is best for us… I wish you all the best but I will certainly miss your poetry that’s for sure. Take Care 🙂
I meant wear thin…forgive any other typos! ha!