One of the great things about writing in community is that you have the opportunity to learn from each other—if you think about it, all of life is a learning experience. Recently, I wrote a poem where I started with the last line and ended with ellipses—I stole that idea from reading Hemingway.
It’s not just style but the way people use words that we can learn from. I love seeing someone pair words that I never would have thought of but work to create a new image. Maybe it is a form challenge you try, and while you may not appreciate form (I mean, who wouldn’t) perhaps you pick up one piece of it that radically affects the way that you write.
Glenn Buttkus is writing another series of screenplay style poems—personally I love them—one thing that I can definitely borrow is how the random images build the mood of the overall piece. I could list numerous things that I have picked up on from reading poems at OLN or one of our other forums.
Today, I want to talk about the tricks of the trade that you have picked up—what is something you have learned about writing in the last year or two?
Perhaps we might borrow it from you & make it our own as well.
Note: It is open house at school so I will be greeting parents until 4 hours after the pub opens, so if I am not around, know I will read and catch up with the conversation—in the meantime, talk among yourselves. Never know, you might learn something. Smiles. ~Brian

oh wow… what a cool topic… sharing our tricks of the trade… and oy…i learned so much those last two years….dunno where to start…ha… let me think on it a bit…
i just learned something today.. was at a street art workshop in berlin and two of the artists did something different than the others… they integrated the surroundings into their wall paintings – one put up a gigantic astronaut on a house wall and our guide told us that there’s a little shop with a flag outside close by – and if you drive past that painting at night, there’s the shadow of this flag on the wall – and it looks like the astronaut just put it up… i think that is something that can be translated into our writing as well… observe a bit.. explore the topic… what elements can you build into your poem so that it becomes a part of it…. thinks like that fascinate me…
oh wow…that is really cool…whata neat trick on using the shadow of the flag..you know i love street art so that is right up my alley and i def think that can be integrated into our writing…just have to think on that a bit…smiles…
I would love to see that! In another life I would have been a street artist – so cool!
here’s a pic…
http://www.victorash.net/walls/walls_1.htm
Beautiful Pics!! The Astronaut plants the flag!
oo me too…hey great to see you ken!
That is so cool Claudia! I love street art – always imagine doing something huge and wild but instead I write poetry! ha ha
Thanks for the mention, brother. This new “form” I sort of bumped into years ago, and then refined into “Cinemagenics” is terrific fun for me to write, having been a life-long movie buff, ex-actor, and self-professed “outlaw of the sensorium”. I studied screenplays, and kind of tried my hand at writing a couple; nothing clicked professionally though.
It was a shock, even 30 years ago for me to find out that screenplays, teleplays, are only outlines; with no suggestions for shot plans, story-boarding, sound cues, etc–that has to left up to the director. If someone buys first your treatment, or idea for a movie, then you might be chosen to write the first screenplay. I say first, because I remember as an actor arriving on sets all prepared with memorized lines from my “side”, the portion of the script given to me to study that has my scenes and lines in it, and finding new pages handed out, with only a short time to make the artistic changes. Each new idea, or set of pages, will be a different color, designating them as new; and this can be done by a producer, another writer called in, or the director.
So what a joy for me to decide that I had no reason why I could not create the “whole movie” for myself, every shot, every line of dialogue, every jump cut, every sound cue & music interlude–and frame it up as poetics, as “free” verse. It is out there for many to get their teeth into, a whole new linguistic landscape and poetic journey. Brian has been wonderful in his support of my forays into the form. One day might bump into another poet who might try the form, technical & obdurate as it seems. I have bugged Sam Peralta to use this as a FFA challenge, but so far no takers.
I am getting another scene ready to post, but it may not be ready by opening bell at OLN tomorrow, but hey, there will be other nights of OLN, and I do not know how far this Muse will take me. LOVE HURTS went on for 12 poems. BLACKTHORNE, since it is based on an unpublished existential Western I wrote 40 years ago, could go on for substantially longer–if there is an interest. I, once, envisioned that I could get a Chapbook interested in these poems, in this form, but no one out there can quite dig it enough to bite on it.
what i love in your screenplay poems is that you really pull us right into the scene with all the senses…sounds… light… scents… it’s terrific
I really like your style. Your experience speaks in your poetry. And it is very well like watching a movie and we are right in the climax and can’t afford to miss a single image that is framed in our minds through your words.
yep… i agree
Some of the most memorable chapter books I have read contain more than a few verses of great poetry! If someone were to write one that was mostly poetry with just a few paragraphs of “normal” speak it would probably go over quite well (done right).
it is def vivid g…and that is what i like about it…and very creatively done…
Glenn, I love the way your poems lead us to the film and the story but let us do the finishing touches on it with our own experiences running the lights and our imaginations doing the set work. Am excited to see more!
oh i’ve learned something else just yesterday when visiting a flea market… there was this guy with his spreads… and he had the most unusual things mixed together… figs and chilly… almonds and mint… plums and basil….really… i tried all of them…and they tasted divine… and hey…we can do this in our poetry as well… mixing forms, mixing topics….mixing whatever…ha..can go terribly wrong but it can be a feast for the senses as well…smiles
Great lesson… sometimes we might find it inappropriate to mingle together styles and forms, but it might work.
I learnt from your experience that we must be fearless and just write. Whether it works or not is a thing to be checked later on.
Even if it doesn’t come out to be alright, we have learnt and tried something new. 🙂
no risk, no fun… smiles
ha. i agree…it is about taking risks…mixing forms would be very cool…i def agree with the attitude that it is ok to fail…how else do we know…but get out of the box…
Good lesson Claudia – sometimes the strangest things work for us. My son has discovered, on his own, salt and pepper toast. He loves it. Sometimes the blend we come up with seems out of this world but then it works, or not, and either way is okay.
I’m beginning to catch the spirit now. I will never forget this learning: write like interesting mixes of cheese spreads! Pies too, I might add, and omelets.
poetry, like any other art, is something with infinite dimensions. We learn new ways of expressing our thoughts through our own experiences as well as the experience that we get when we read a poem written by another being.
We all are so different in the same way as we are similar to each other that we could find our state of mind as a basis of a poet’s creation and sometimes we feel as if we have read it before. And it is true you have read it before in your mind with the words through which you analyzed your thoughts.
This is mind boggling.
Let me get ahead of it and share what I have learnt in the past year.
I have learnt to write freely without giving much thought but letting my senses overcome my mind and just type the words that find their place in the tremor of my fingers.
Okay, I am being very confusing today.
I have learnt to appreciate words like I have never had before. And that is just because of reading such creations, where the words would come forth to look through my soul and make me shudder.
I have learnt to edit… otherwise, I would always leave my creation as it was written for the first time earlier.
I am a metaphor maniac… But I learnt to not only write something that only I could understand. God forbid… I would have been writing in Martian then.
There was a poem I wrote four years back and had it read by a friend, he wasn’t able to understand it while the meaning was so concrete in front of my eyes. And now I understand why it was so. We were not able to relate as a writer and a reader. It was his fault because he never tried to look through my words and I was at fault myself because I wrote the words never having taken care of what it would be like if I read this poem myself, forgetting that I was the creator.
I don’t know if it is a good lesson or not but it has helped me in recent times.
Well, that is quite a massive reply to your question. 🙂
i hear you on the poems that are crystal clear to us and someone else might not understand them… i usually try to write my poems in a way that people can understand them – though the interpretation is up to them – and everyone sees through their own glasses as well..
nah, not long at all…and def something to think about it…three are ceratin blips of freedom that i have had to get over…things that held me back that made it all the better…i make some pretty radical leaps at times in my poems…and i def have to keep the reader in mind when i do write….
But I loved your reply, long and very well said!
Probably stating the obvious here…. If I want to write well (especially when I am blocked), then I have to read, read, read. It’s like magic when I stop writing and read for a few days, then a day or two later the words just begin to flow. This is why everyone here is so important! So many great things to read, there is never time enough.
On another note (this may or may not be of any value to anyone here) When I draw or paint the thing that helps me most is music. The headphones go on, the ink comes out! Its amazing the energy that music ads to my artwork.
Loving the discussions here!
really cool… i love how the rhythm of the music mirrors in the poetry then… generally i’m not writing much to music except it’s really in the background… reading others inspires me as well, esp. bukowski…dunno why this is but when i read him, i immediately wanna start writing… i don’t have this with any other poet in this intensity…have yet to find out how this comes…ha.. smiles
I am the same way!! Music is one of my biggest inspirations… I listen to tons of Kanye West and funk/new age instrumentals when I write.
i def love having music on when i write…and i know that does not work for everyone, but it does me…ha, anthony…kanye…yeah i hear you….
and reading is def influential in writing too…when i read it is easier for me….
Reading is something I am constantly doing, took survey not long ago about how many novels I read in a year – I laughed because it stopped at four, I read four a month sometimes! Reading and music are key for me as well.
Hi dverse… excuse my morning breath in the afternoon… today is humid & rain here in michigan (which calls for a good nap lol). The one thing I’ve learned that helps me the most: not being afraid of my emotions. I’m the kind of person who bottles up my feelings. ANd reading a lot of work on here and BlankSlate on tumblr has really made me feel ok with being vulnerable.
i got a bit of a similar problem… growing up in an insecure environment, i marked emotions as dangerous…so i’m denying and trying to ignore them… and poetry is a nice way to channel them a bit…
i hear you…i think there is a direct corrolation to how much a reader will open up to a poem based on how honest we are in our emotions…
good to see you brother!
nice to see you guys too! 🙂
Poetry is the only place I truly am vulnerable and open. I am glad you found that too!
I write things now like SpIkEy and rollllling and let my mind just move to a very different place for dverse than for haiku or any other writing. I L♥VE it! I’ve always written with lots of ellipses (ellipsis…ellipsi?) so feel very at home here. Thank you all for welcoming me. Again my guilt speech. Blurred eyes in weaning down again from meds and never got to revisit the cowboy poems. I do what I can and one day I will stop having withdrawal affecting my eyes and/or scar tissue from last year’s cataract surgeries building up. *scream*
hey – no worries – health comes def. first – and cool on letting the mind move to different places…you never know where you gonna find it again…smiles
ah sorry…i know that is hard for you….and i am glad you are feeling at home…lol….i love my ellipses….
Yes this is the place to feel at home poetically! and me too… I love ellipses… don’t care to use punctuation in my work but on twitter/commenting… I use (…) more than actual words… lol…
Please don’t worry, health first as Claudia said! I love your work, and look forward to it.
Thank you for the comments and understanding. I have such writer’s guilt from lack of reading. Is that a thing? Glad I finally got to post my SpIkEy write on the next prompt. Been waiting for the chance.
on dinner break, pooping in to catch up…probably the greatest lesson for me came a couple years ago…in listening to slam poetry, particularly saul williams…and learning to pay attention to how words sound together and interact with one another….it is huge in spoken word…but it def adds flow to poetry as well….
You are so right Brian. When we ‘hear it’ and then ‘read it’ or ‘read it’ and then ‘hear it’ the sounds make a huge difference!
This may be blunt so apologies. KISS. Keep it simple stupid.
The only way I’ve ever written anything remotely good. Keep the word choices simple, then everything else flows. Any attempts at overt and elongated metaphors and the like, it all falls apart.
After reading things like Wang Wei’s Deer Park:
No one seen. In empty mountains,
hints of drifting voice, no more.
Entering these deep woods, late sun-
light ablaze on green moss, rising.
is when I aimed for simplicity. Think it’s going okay.
And to everyone else: awesome posts and discussion.
Simple is good. And can be so powerful as well.
simple is good…we can at times get caught up in our poetics and forget what we are really trying to accomplish…that is for sure….
I have learned a few things this past year, with my poetry dedicated blog on the 135th post (plus what I’ve had elsewhere), and your challenging my growth and encouraging me.
And I write elsewhere with a huge difference in interaction. Poets are like the the Proverb of iron sharpening iron. We comment, we share, we praise and offer respectful critique. So many other places in the blogosphere your words float out into nothingness and you never know what others think unless they get angry with you. Keep that up folks, it is tremendous to be trying something new, and finding out that others are reading and cheering you on!
My poetry comes very often from my mind to the keyboard very nearly complete, and when I do not capture them when they appear my muse takes them away forever. And trying to recapture them makes a hot mess that ends up in the trash bin. I have learned to use my devices to capture those moments of inspiration for later, and not lose them.
Each of us has a unique poetic voice, and when we do a form challenge or something that seems to require us all to try marching to the same drummer I love that we still keep our unique voices intact! It may be a drummer but I’m sure I see people carrying accordions and other instruments, and there is almost always a quick two step or a polka mixed in.
Finding the things that inspire you – large or small – and letting the poem come in an organic way can be a lot of fun. I find my photos can inspire me, or help complete a thought process that leads to a poem worthy of sharing. That would be my other thought on this – I’ve often seen some stunning images with your poems, they can make a huge difference in the reader’s experience and I find they also impact my own in the writing.
Sorry for the long response – thanks for getting this far! 🙂 Your reward is now I am done! ha ha
Thank you for mentioning this, Shanyns, because one of the deepest learning experiences for me here is the dVersity of responses to any one prompt. Gives me courage to go my own way. (What’s in a name? a lot at the Pub.) I feel so encouraged in my writing here, I am able to enjoy and be a better reader for others.
i do like to see how various people approach a prompt, it is like looking at each of the facets of a jewel…each can be appreciated for what it is…you know i def agree with the iron sharpening iron…it is in community that we find that…encouraging one another but also the gentle prods as well…smiles.
I learned about the value of enjambment. Maybe focusing on line breaks seems like an obvious thing but it’s something I’ve been thinking about lately, unlike before where I usually just broke lines where a noun is and tried to make things look neat. Like when I was writing “Alive” I started with:
They found her trying
to destroy herself, again
With these two lines together it reads that someone was trying to kill herself but I broke the line after “trying” because “trying” also means difficult or wearisome. Reading the first line alone it says that they found the woman difficult to deal with. The enjambment creates another, possible meaning.
I also tried it in my other poem “Waiting at IHOP”:
to make herself into something
great. Now, she isn’t
While the second line here logically follows the first it can also read be read as “Now, she isn’t great”.
You are so right! I think of that too, and the often different meanings a break really can give. Even between stanzas. Great thoughts.
it is a cool tool…i tend to look at it a few ways…i work line breaks for double meanings…and for natural breathes since most of mine i will perform at some point…and breath on the emphasis…cool learning for sure…
Brian has hit a heart nerve bang on here, because what I reading, hearing, surmising, is that this poetic community, this particular gaggle of wordsmiths, has a well-defined fully-integrated fellowship that shines through–and with Brian & Claudia at the helm, steering the ship, so very many of us have grown with our association, have made new friends, have shared and are sharing, and even have found ourselves published. It does not get much better than this as we pour out our poetics, working quietly at our keyboards after scribbling stanzas in longhand, and we very rarely get the feeling that our whelped words, our poetic offspring, are sent coldly into an indifferent void. No, quite the opposite. We feel welcomed, hugged, stoked, stroked & sometimes even loved; dig it.
aw, man hug….ha…
i hear you brother…glad you are on the journey….
You said it Glenn!
Unlike Brian, I have embraced forms in particular Haibun, Glosa and pantoun thanks to Tumbleweed and Sam. But I try to imbed a signature and style.
I started out with rhymes but quickly evolved to free form in late teens. Then I realised my free form was very much like classic forms!
ah there is still much for me to learn from form….while i may not adhere to it strictly, i can def take things from it…smiles…
I have opened up to a freewheeling penning of thoughts and that has come when reading responses to a prompt – diverse perceptions, understanding, presentation and the way thoughts are shaped in words. Each one of us have a style of our own and though I have never had anyone in this forum coming back negative on my poems (wonder if I should take the no. of comments as a scale to measure!!) nevertheless, the little thoughts that flow in do help when I revisit them sometime, especially the last week’s MTB on meters was a fulfilling experience of learning and experimenting with something new. I got a few but wonderful comments! and realised that these forms bring in so much fun and flavour to an otherwise free verse! I wonder how often I can invest time to use them though! 🙂 But some day, one day, hopefully… smiles…
def dont take the number of comments…that is a poor judge…i have seen plenty good writing that had few…smiles…especially in the harder challenges…
I think what I have learned is that more than anything, prompts are invaluable in terms of inspiration. Life is busy and a degree of reflection is often required to be exposed to inspiration – for exposure I believe it is – and so the prompts are accessible and very useful.
i would agree…they give you a focal point in the chaos at times…i waver at times between our dependence on them and our need as well to write free…
Coming late to the discussion (dare I say ‘as usual’) – maybe it’s the timezone, maybe it’s my biological clock, maybe I just need more time to think than others. Certainly that’s true of the prompts – I’m still struggling to respond to them. And this is precisely what I have learnt most in my relatively short time here with dVerse Poets: that it’s not just about waiting for inspiration to strike, but also about hard work and practice. In fact, it’s mostly about hard work, experimentation, crossing out and trying again, pushing yourself with new prompts, with things you would never normally attempt. That’s the only way to stretch your poetic muscle, so that you don’t end up forever writing the same poem in a million different (barely disguised) garments.
So true, MarinaSofia. The prompts make us use those untapped or tested brain muscles. However, very often I pen poems knowing I will not make the linky. And I still do write poetry sometimes just for the fun of its sans prompt. There was a time when my prompts came from the flowers on the cafe table, a sweeping lady wearing a brilliant red dress or my own serendipity or euphoria. I try to maintain that, and look to nature and a good read to lull me into a state of ‘inspired acceptance’.
oo i am with you on experimentation, trying new things and pushing back the boundaries…i like it when people take risks in their writing…amd so right in that last statement as well…
What is essential to understand about risk taking is that it is integral to growth. What Brian & Claudia have done is to both support & inspire growth through their unwavering positive posture. I used to lament that I did not receive as many comments on my work as some others; then I began to realize, when reviewing & revisiting the comments on my work, for the most part, they have consistently been in depth, helpful, astute, honest–much more than a mere “atta-boy” pat on the ego.
Often we, some of us, do not meet the challenges of a “form” prompt, and yet what a rush when we do nail it, when Sam or Tony or one of the other sharpies at the Pub give us the thumbs up. So the number of comments must be weighed by their content & intent. I try to be faithful with my visiting of other blogs, to the homes & hearts of our peer groups. dVerse is not alone in this concept. Hundreds of poetry blogs are out there; but once you find that niche, that comfort zone at a pub, cafe, or friend’s domicile, you need to frequent it regularly.
I’m another late-comer, and have very much enjoyed catching up with this discussion. For me, the thing I have most learnt — apart from how many brilliant poets are out there — is a lot of new forms that are fun to play with, particularly as I have always seen myself as primarily a free verse poet. My greatest thrill has been mastering, not only the sonnet, but various kids of sonnet — which I always imagined was way beyond me until Sam made it seem so easy.