This weekend I was watching a poet perform and while I was impressed with his cadence & verse, the way he turned a metaphor, it was the short two minute conversation between poems that intrigued me. The poet was talking about the role of the poet in taking the reader on a journey through their words…and he made a statement that sent me wondering.
He said, “To truly take a reader on a journey you have to be honest.”
He did not really explain the statement and just left it to hang out there and for us to mull over.
At first my thoughts went to the difference between non-fiction and fiction, but that is not what he meant—i dont think. I think that is preference and I have read plenty of fictional poetry that moved me just as well.
My interpretation of what the poet was saying had to do with the heart put in the poem. It is easy to tell when there is no heart and a poem is just made of words strung together.
Of course, he could have been talking about not trying to be another poet and being yourself, staying true to yourself—finding your own voice.
So, let’s talk—what is the role of honesty in poetry?
dVerse 
Honesty- with yourself or those listening i feel i put honesty in my words especially if confessional in style , also political poems as i wear that on my sleeve. But lack of honesty intrigues me do you counterfeit your life to sound more expressive or enhance an element of personality , it is the chatting up and seduction of your readers as to how much you give away on the first date , the decision then is to be faithful or betray , i look forward to seeing what you all have to say 🙂
If one does very much spoken word performing, open mic happenings, it can be a first date or fifth date, depending on how many times you have been seen; so I reach out every time with the hug & embrace, the bitch-slap, the muckraking, the lesson, the humor, the tragedy and/or truth; so perhaps it is the ring of truth that hooks the audience ear or heart, and this becomes the “honesty” you inquire about. I mean when you are Iago, your honesty is solid, but there is no affection passing between performer & audience.
i’ve been to some poetry slams those last months and i think in a live session you feel it even more than when you just read a poem on a blog if there’s this honesty and authenticity – if it’s not there, the audience will sense it immediately – i have seen poets perform not so good poems with an immense amount of authenticity and that beats a well woven poem, lacking honesty by far
i think the key thing is authenticity….you can ham it up, or embelish, but remain honest to the feelings in the situation….and i agree with c….in watching some perform, their performance may not have been great as to the skills but i felt what they were laying down…
At first I thought your title referred to the Poe truth, the dark side of honesty, humor, bathos, pathos–but now I see another lovely anagram, and am propelled down another road. I think when poet performs their own work, it is a performance, as an actor interprets dialogue, so the honesty, the earnestness, the selling of the words, comes from the actor/poet, and the particular bent they are utilizing during the performance, so that the spoken word become clarion. I try and use character voices, dialects, sounds, sibilance, sweetness, rancor, sarcasm–and somehow this does not circumnavigate honesty–for the heartbeat of honesty is imprinted, implanted in the poetics, in the words chosen, in the line breaks, in the emotions shared. So in a bizarre twist on the aforementioned poet’s discourse, I think the audience will take the journey with you when they are intrigued, moved, perplexed, pissed off, frightened, or fascinated by you & by your words.
an interesting thought glenn– i think a good actor identifies so much with the person he plays that he feels their pain and joy and frustration and that makes them able to play it authentically – and that is also the difference between a good and a bad actor probably
Yes, Claudia. The best acting schools teach one to dig deep and find a connection with a character … always. No matter how sinister, how different this character is, one must find a thread that makes the character real in your interpretation… (or something like that – I’m not an actor, just an actor’s mom 😉
smiles.. my mom used to be a hobby actor…
ah, that connection is huge…esp if you are doing a piece outside of who you are….lacking that connection it can come off very flat….
Answering the question from this angle makes me think of Hamlet’s wonder at the player’s ability to make someone feel what has happened to a character (the wife of Priam) when it has never happened to the actor. But the response of the poem and the tone are the poet’s even if the plot/character is not.
odd side note…my son asked me to take him to the shakespeare theatre to see hamlet….
Do take him. It’s about a student whose father just died. He wants to go back to school, but his mom’s new husband won’t let him go. He wants to watch Hamlet just in case …. And then, Hamlet’s dad returns as a ghost! dun de dun dun…..
someone once said “if you don’t feel it, don’t write it”
i think honesty is very important in poetry or any artform, staying true to ourselves – it doesn’t mean IMO that all facts are true, maybe the story can be totally invented but the emotions need to shine through in an honest way – otherwise it’s just empty words that won’t touch anyone
True that, Claudia, but it is kind of like preaching to the choir; for almost by definition, a poet “feels it” with every write, it is your emotions, your voice, your perceptive filter, is it not? One wears, as a poet, a kind of badge of honor–and will shy away from “empty words” like a horse not wanting to step on a snake.
i dunno glenn….i have def read poets that seemed not to feel it…as if it was just words on the page….i think you can tell when a poet is holding back, even on th page…
Yes. Much like a piano player – there are some that simply play the notes, and there are others that really PLAY the notes. Perhaps both played the same notes but the difference is in the feeling.
Yes, yes, I can dig it.
truth.
Interesting – I did not take it to mean whether a poem is fiction or non-fiction. I find it fascinating for different people to read the same poem – and depending on the way it is read – a different meaning can be born. My son is an actor, can sell a poem quite well – but he refuses to read my poems the way I “feel” them… and I wouldn’t want him to. I think poetry is an art meant to be heard, read out loud – it is almost sad if all poetry is read silently for it is the way it is felt on the tongue, the way it is heard that makes it real, in my opinion.
I like “copying” styles of other poets, but that is for learning – and is a great way to develop one’s own voice – I see artists in museums studying Van Gogh – so why not study “the great” poets that way as well? I think this method develops a strong, authentic voice as well.
I look forward to the comments here tonight.
We open an interesting dialogue here, Margaret. As a lifetime poet, ex-actor & teacher, I always feel that words written are only the first step in communication–agreeing with the metaphysical notion that when words are spoken they take on more validity, become authentic and alive. Yet many famous poets who read, or perform their own work do not do the words justice, for they are not performers, actors, or even good readers. So the truth of it is not linear; because most of them are sharing their words honestly, but suffer a communication break down. I do agree that another’s interpretation of our work is often difficult to endure; pauses, inflections, breaths all in the wrong place. A slippery slope here tonight.
I have to agree. I read my poems out loud and I think “that is not how I feel it…” and then my son will read it out loud and I say “yes!”. I guess I am reserved in that regard, “getting naked” ha … but I have gotten better, I think. But it would also drive me nuts if I heard it read in a way I didn’t like … I guess we all would feel that way of our “creations”.
i too think that copying others is a good way to learn – we try this and that until we find our own voice – but i think it’s only the style we should copy – if we try to copy the emotions, it works never
finding our own voice is def a journey…and i def study poets, steal their tricks, but then also try to make them my own…kinda like mixing colors…the true color is still in there but becomes something completely different…
This is a interesting thing to talk about and see how we all differ on this topic. My personal take on it is that the more authentic a poet is, the more a reader will stay on the page and connect to what their reading. I think the reader is always looking for a genuine poem that makes him/her say, “I get that” and/or “they share similar struggles or experiences as myself .”
i think it’s in our nature that we’re looking for genuine stuff… i remember when i was a kid, we didn’t have much money and i got a tape with the hits of the time and they almost sounded like the originals – but only almost and it made me desperate.. i wouldn’t have minded if they went for a total different interpretation but this almost but not quite getting close copy really p… me off.. ha… think that shaped me in a way.. smiles
Linda, I could not agree with you more. So well stated. Thank you.
I think the poet meant say something because it actually means something, that the work comes from some experience you know. I don’t mean the work is autobiographical rather I mean the poem is something that matters to poet and believes that topic matters to others. Poetry has to speak to others. The aim is neither agreement nor approval but connection. To be honest is to say something that means something to you versus saying something to impress the audience or because a phrase or image sounds good.
Don’t write about what you don’t know. Don’t write about love or loss or indignation if you don’t know it. Again, I’m not talking about limiting your work to personal experience rather if you don’t know something beyond an intellectual exercise don’t go there. And do go where you feel exposed, vulnerable and uncomfortable. Tackle what you’re afraid to deal with because you need to and likely a reader will recognize the authenticity in the write.
Nikki Giovanni said once, get naked. If you’re pretending, keep it in your journal or solicit the approval from those who feel obligated to give it to you. The poem should reflect something about you.
i totally and whole-heartedly agree LaTonya..
I love the notion that authenticity arises when we “get naked”, we offer a rawness, a glimpse our innermost self, and somehow, if this does not offend others, it generates empathy, interest, agreement.
i agree – and i think it’s a thin lines sometimes and it also depends on the person – i’ve been to a poetry slam with my husband and one of the poets performed a piece that was really brutal in a way and def. left no one untouched – for me it was still on the good side of the line tough – not for my husband – it really put him off
Don’t write about what you don’t know…whew…i like how you explain that though LaTonya, experience is def something you cant fake and come of well….and hey you want experience and really want to write it…go into it…find someone that went through and get them to be brutally honest with you….then rap it in verse….
ha. i think the first slam we went to scared my wife as well…smiles…
…it should reveal something about you. Don’t pretend, like Brian said though, interviewing or watching a person experience something can be quite useful.
i’ve written a poem today with an octopus and a carp in it.. smiles.. maybe i need to work on really identifying with them….ha.. ok.. i’m a bit in a silly mood…smiles
hope you’re all having a great monday… it’s raining cats and dogs over here… if it doesn’t stop our house may be carried out onto the sea overnite – and when i wake in the morning, i’m already in africa…smiles
May be it is not about identifying them but rather viewing them as they are… making a perception based on reality. I apologize if it doesn’t make much sense.
I love rains and we haven’t had any here for almost a month… send some clouds our way.. 🙂
oh i would love to… will search for some stamps and mail them…smiles
hey if you wake in africa, have fun…just saying…
ha. see my note below to bjorn as i think it applies to this…
very interesting… as I mostly write fiction I think that it has to have an honest message.. some sentiment I want to express. I use fiction to make it easier….
You know, Bjorn, in an odd way, even if we write from our life, our personal recall is tinted & tainted with inaccuracy, twists, tweaks, exaggerations, distortions; it is all part of being human, or only being able to process an event through our own personal experience filters–so everything we write are works of fiction to some extent.
smiles.. true that…. and that’s one of the things i love about poetry…
i like what glenn says on how we process even fiction through our lens and what we are trying to convey even in a fictional piece…what kernel of truth or how are you trying to move hte audience…although they dont always move exactly how you want…ha…
Honesty in poetry… At a creative writing class, a question was asked- “What is poetry?” My answer was, “Poetry is the language of the soul.” Yes, it was a really boring answer which doesn’t say much. And in reply, I was told that every form of writing could be considered the very same.
I think in every form of writing, we have to maintain our identity. We have our own voice and thus, we must aim to develop it further, rather than running for something else or imitating others.
I am rather confused about it. Truth, honesty- may be it means we must write what we can feel ourselves.
Interesting question… and there can be so many answers. It depends differently for every individual… may be.
writing what we can feel ourselves.. i like that..
Just found out this week that the planets in our solar system do not rotate around the sun, they rotate in a helix-fashion adjacent to it, as it moves, we do. Nothing is linear, as quantum physics destroys the notion of the Boar Atom, as archeology puts down Darwin’s linear notion of evolution, as science laughs at religious genesis. So yes, how right you are, or write you are; my truth & honesty may not be, probably is not yours. There is a mystery in our “connection” to some poetry, and rejection of others; like our response to all of Art.
before i go to bed… thanks Glenn for beating the twitter drum.. much appreciated…
I think actually when it comes to that poetry and prose are no different… the more I write poetry the more I think I learn about writing prose.
glenn, intrigued by your statement ‘ There is a mystery in our “connection” to some poetry, and rejection of others; like our response to all of Art.’…there is truth in that…its funny too some pieces i have written that i am not happy with those are the ones people connect with and then ones i think i hit are ones that fall flat…
Sometimes I feel that poetry is created in the spaces and between the lines in the mind of the reader.
ooo nice line there bjorn…one thing we have to be careful of is not allowing the reader gaps to fill with themselves…
perhaps poetry is about our reactions, our philosophy toward life – AND I LOVE Bjorn’s comment “poetry is created in the spaces and between the lines in the mind of the reader”… Yes, their reaction. I have often been intrigued by comments after a poem I wrote… to find a reader went in a totally different direction than I ever intended!
and i dont think that is bad at all…if they relate to it and it takes them somewhere else…hey, who are we to get in the way…
The statement reminds me of the Hemingway quote, “All you have to do is write one true sentence. Write the truest sentence that you know.” And also of the question of why Homer described the sea as “wine-dark” rather than green or blue
An aspect of what it means to me is that we’re accustomed to how language is habitually used, to clichés, to what we see through the constraints of that habitual lens, but something that’s more true breaks out of that.
Like Homer calling the sea “wine-dark” instead of blue or green (http://www.nytimes.com/1983/12/20/science/homer-s-sea-wine-dark.html has a terribly earnest article trying to recuperate literal truth in this phrase), or a quote I can’t find by Oscar Wilde, the one where he likens a flower to perfume rather than the other way around.
i love that hemingway quote… and thanks for pointing us toward that article..will read it in the morning with fresh eyes
That’s a great point, Kathy. There certainly is a feeling of dishonesty when we use cliche or even when we use obvious descriptions or parallels. On the contrary, though, when I read works that seem to try too hard at painting a unique picture, using analogy or description that seems forced, it rings hollow to me as well. ~jason
” when I read works that seem to try too hard at painting a unique picture, using analogy or description that seems forced, it rings hollow to me as well. ”
Oh this is sore spot for me. Nothing turns me more than reading something that strikes me as affectation. Actually, makes my a– itch. I don’t care how clever or unique, if the phrasing, image comes off as ‘see how clever I am’ I’m pissed. Okay, in my defense, you took me there, jason. lol
I gotta say “makes my a- itch” strikes me as a great piece of honesty. (What that means for my point I don’t know, because I don’t know if it’s a unique phrase — 1st time I hear it anyhow. Will have to borrow it for a poem.)
ha. maybe i need to go hide…i play that line pretty close at times in the clever realm, not to show off but to play and tease a bit…over used cliche though, ugh, i hear you there…i think there is a time for making it easier for the reader…and a time for some flash as well….
I’d add: write one true sentence until you find the surprise in it. That’s the risk and the art–communicating the surprise and through surprise even of mundane things. That’s what I so love about the nature poems of Mary Oliver. She makes me want to take morning walks, but I don’t see what she sees. I have to read her work to make those connections.
surprise…or enlightenment…or the mystery…i def think there is a lot of that…even in the mundane…smiles.
smiles… i thought i would stay up until bri shows up but too tired already… and really…my brain starts acting in strange ways when i get tired…smiles… so logging off for tonite and will read through your discussions in the morn…
Thanks for your honesty, Claudia 🙂
sleep well c….
And may the honesty or angels hover over your self in dreamland, where poetry becomes alive, where fantasy becomes a drama you inhabit, and we will herald the media when you rise from slumber, ready for more challenges.
that would be the “honesty of angels”, dear lady, as you sleep on the far side of the globe while we have lunch.
wow. can you pray that blessing over me tonight too glenn? smiles.
Great discussion here.
For me, “honesty” in my poetry as well in my painting and photography, means showing more than the surface, digging deeper, uncovering some of the “uglier” parts, revealing details, seeing the whole picture and not merely the part that is easy or comfortable or pretty. Honesty in writing requires unraveling the entire of the emotion or the scene or whatever it is that you are exploring. When we censor out the difficult areas, I think that is when people sense we are not being entirely truthful.
Thanks for the wonderful post 🙂 ~peace, Jason
true on the digging deeper…and its not just the uglies but maybe finding the beauty in something that is considered ugly…graeme points out below in questionin ourselves through our poetry and where we stand…
Honesty is essential as what makes a poem a poem is, partly, the truth it contains. Where many poets (myself included) often fall down though, is failing to make that deeply personal honesty into a universal truth. Poetry which is “just” honest can be very uncomfortable to read as it puts the reader in the position of voyeur.
It is impossible for any art to ever be completely honest as it necessarily involves a frame of some sort, which skews, obscures, hides and focusses.
Creating poetry also, in my case at least, involves an interaction with the poem where it asks the writer questions of themselves. That is where honesty is essential, in answering the questions the poem demands.
(This is why I really write poetry – I suck at prose!)
“Poetry which is “just” honest can be very uncomfortable to read as it puts the reader in the position of voyeur.”
good point.
i like your thought here on just honest and needing to bridge the gap to the reader…it gives them something to latch onto and relate to so they dont feel like they were caught looking at nude pictures…lol….
so true on poetry asking us to question ourselves as well…
..”it asks questions of ourselves”… and sometimes the poetry itself asks the reader to ponder a question –
Yes, a really good poem stays tucked inside us, triggers an emotion.
My husband says if you want to know who my wife is and what she is all about read her poetry. It is something I cannot fail but to be truthful in, even in fictional poems the heart and the intent has truth to it.
I do admit I was excited that there was going to be a Poe aspect to this, but perhaps in a way there is. He fought to be true and suffered greatly for it. Maybe we all need to be truthful to our words and the spirit of our craft.
I know I could never be a hired gun, writing greeting card or custom verse. This pony don’t do those kinds of tricks 🙂 If I did it would no sound like or be me. I may not even own it but consign it to a pen name.
When people read my poetry, or my other blogs, I want them to experience something. A smile. A frown. A scowl. A laugh. A tilted head in question. Something! Experience something, even if it is to acknowledge you never thought of it that way before.
i would say i want people to experience something as well…or question something…or agitate their position a bit so they think about why they think some way….writing jingles or ad copy would def not sound like me…ha…
oh I hear you, I think our jingles and ad copy would be, well, interesting! ha ha
Can you even imagine if Poe had tried to hide his depression, his fears? I think people can feel my “momness” is that a word (ha) in my poetry – I can’t help it. I search for solitude – for calm (and I often think … ENOUGH!)
So where do some of my favorite poems I write – the ones where I write about historical times, people… I guess to keep it real, it has to come from my perspective, my understanding/research of the situation/person.
love that Margaret! 🙂
think i am caught up….some great discussion and interpretations going on tonight…thanks for the great convo…
go caught in prepping for two meetings first thing in the morning so joined in late…heading home now and be back in a bit to see what others are thinking…
I called my “month shy of 21 year old” son and posed the question: What is poetry, and what role does honesty play?
Will said “Poetry is an art… it must be “in the moment”. It is the distillation of philosophy expressed with (unreserved) honesty” .
I asked him then, that a reading today might differ from a reading of the same poem a year from now… He said “absolutely”.
i would agree that a reading today may reap a different result than a year from now…or maybe even a week from now depending on the life situation at the time, experience or just changes in our view point…
The poet produces honesty from his heart factory,
he paints portraits of his surrealism subconscious,
and turns them into masterpieces.
That is his madness in being honest with the world.
haha there is a certain madness to honesty…
need to check the aSSembly line of my heart factory as well…
smiles.
🙂
I’m glad you let me be honest about what I said. 🙂
Also, honestly comes from drinking a cup of coffee and listening to some Jazz poetry. It’s a great soothing of words and flows down into our subconscious.
cooooffffffeeeeeee….
smiles…def soothing to listen to others have their play in the words…
and us just appreciate it…
Some of the worst poems I ever wrote were about things I had no emotional connection to, the work was flat and as I re-read them my response was “blah, blah, blah.” I think one must be moved by a subject even if it’s not from personal experience. I feel the same way about books and music, I need to feel something.
def agree on the need to feel…and reading some of my early poetry i have some of the same response…there was that prompt that was done at MTB not too long ago and my original intention was to rewrite the second poem i ever wrote and there was just no helping it…i still was not feeling it…ha…
I have so many of those poems Brian. I was going through my documents today and I deleted many “blahs”. There were a few I tried to revise but to no avail, they were just really bad and looking at them I felt a sense of embarrassment that I ever thought they were good.
haha…we were young once you know…in poetry…there are many of those first fumbling pieces i still adore…and so it was we first found the magic…
Honesty in a poem, as in a play or a painting might not have anything to do with the literal facts. I had an ex who read some of my poems, recognizing himself, who said, “That’s not what happened!” My response was that I am a poet, not a historian. The feelings were real, but the method for how the poem conveys those feelings needs to be one that is free to experiment with language, form, and the “right words in the right order.”
In Chaim Potok’s novel “My Name Is Asher Lev,” the main character is questioned as a small child by his mother who asks him why he paints his uncle. She asks why he paints him in a blue suit when his uncle never wears blue, but always wears brown. Little Asher responds that his uncle doesn’t feel brown to him.
mmm great example in the chaim potok story…we use all the elements to convey the moment as it feels and seems to us…but that is what is real to us…and our story…
“Honesty’s just another word for, nothing left to lose.” – Janis Joplin
🙂
wasnt that freedom? smiles
yep. hence my comment
on one level, my post is ‘dishonest’ in that I know the original statement and intentionally mis-state it.
but on another level, if the reader is unaware of the original, or isn’t too familiar, it ‘sounds’ real enough, and might be picked up as the ‘new truth’. which case, if it is – isn’t that then, too, not just “an honest mistake” but also a NEW honest statement? After all, it sounds plausible, that when one is honest, one has nothing left to lose. That’s the only time politicians are honest, or advertising executives, or preachers caught with their pants down, after all.
but finally, honesty is like air: it’s not the same everywhere. If you think it is – visit Beijing. Or Moscow. Or Washington. You can breathe it in, and it might sustain you – but depending on what else is packed in there, it can poison, as well.
as for poetry, I tend to agree, Bri, with your take on authenticity, and LaTonya’s on affectation. Yet imagination isn’t really true – so can it be honest?
can imagination still convey the true feeling? or still bear a universal truth? i think it can…
I don’t know how to write fiction. I may place myself somewhere as a parable when I was really in another location, but I write from my heart. Many call my writing raw and honest. Even tho much of my past is difficult to grasp, my truth is my truth. I think writing can convey honest emotions and experiences if one has truth upon which to draw. Hope that made sense. I thought this was a really interesting question.
i would say your writing is raw and honest…you take me into a world i know only through glimpses….if one has truth upon which to draw…ah, very true…
it has been a fun conversation…
Interesting discussion. I try to write from the heart, from real experiences but I keep my themes universal, not personal. So if I write about loss, for example, it’s the emotion I try to convey, but not the specifics. Or if I write about love, it’s not my personal love story, but it’s based on feelings I’ve truly felt. So my poetry becomes a mosaic, with bits and pieces of me, my experiences, my emotions, my values … or an abstract, if you will. To me, that’s what honesty is, to stay true to myself but make it universal, and I think readers connect with emotions that resonate with them.
interesting the decision not to go as personal…i would say much of mine tends to lead that way, drawing on what is happening in my life…i do have to change identities of the characters in my poems to protect confidentiality often..
Thanks, Brian … the decision not to go personal for me has to do with privacy. If I write about a sensitive topic based on personal experience, I just extract the essence, the emotion from it, but don’t reveal details. That is just my preference. The writing can still be vivid with strong imagery without getting too personal. It also adds a bit of mystery, I think, that intrigues readers, keeps them hooked. Smiles 🙂
def makes sense…and i do think it can still impact the reader…
I take it to mean emotional honesty – and, as so many others have already said, authenticity.
When I started going public with poetry, I resolved that I must always come from truth. I also noted that truth and fact are not necessarily the same thing. There can be great truth in fiction and make-beiieve – and in fun and whimsy, like Claudia’s octopi.
It’s along time sine I did any performance. I think it’s true that honesty shows up immediately there – but it’s also important on the page. It’s essential in any form writing, I believe, because who you are is going to show through anyway, in ways beyond your control.
Digression: Cases of plagiarism, referred to briefly in the above discussions, are a different kettle of fish. We have just had a big scandal in Australia, involving two acclaimed and awarded poets who turn out to be serial plagiarists. (It’s public knowledge, so I’ll name them to avoid suspicion falling on others: Andrew Slattery and Graham Nunn.) The writing still came across as honest, but it was someone else’s honesty (a number of other people’s). I guess it makes a good case for judges of literary prizes to be extremely well-read!
mmm…interesting ont eh finding out of them as plagarists…when stuff like that happens it can taint a shole art and bring it under circumspection…ha. true on the literary prizes…i think it important on the page as well…it can be hiddne a bit better there…i like too the difference between truth and fact…we are of like minds there..
I’m flabbergasted, Rosemary, especially to Mr. Graham Nunn. I have been furtively reading some of his works for quite a time in the past & seriously got to admire some of his poems for real, but now? I have doubts… and hightened more after reading some evidences of this dark claim-to-fame! I’m disappointed!
As some of you here already knew I have been doing Found poetry these days based / using the poems of the great deads, and ne’er in ea single thought have I attempted to ‘copy the exact words & layered it in a exact / same row’. As much as possible, I tried to jumble the words / letters contained in the original work to create another set of thoughts to mold a new, independent piece. And – yes – most importantly (and very honoured to do so) I credit the original master.
Some of us still have poetry we wrote 50 years ago, and it does seem flat, shallow, insincere to the older us reviewing it, so my solution is just to return to those old timers periodically, and take out one stanza, several lines, and then rewrite them into a new poem from the perspective of the older wiser poet I am now. Two schools of thought on rewrites; one–never rewrite anything; that does not improve it, it just changes it to something else, or two–of course rewrite everything, re-read everything, these are your words, your thoughts, your honesty–so you have every right to update the perceptions, to hone the honesty, to redirect the thrust. And when the larder of poetics is vast, numbering in the thousands, you would never have a need, or the time to plagiarize someone else.
ha. i rewrite only if i need…when you are beyond the expiration date on a poem it is hard…sometimes i think we forget why we did it a certain way…i def will steal a line to write from on occassion…
I’ve said this somewhere else: “It is easy to identify a poem; the hardest part is feeling it.”
While everyone, in this generation of greats, can write a poem whenever they want to, still, there are only few who can really make a poem sing when read by a third party. Think yourself & your poetry as Lovers; your reader as Third Party — Lovers should’ve chemistry to connect &/or appeal with the third parties, and in order to have that chemistry you need to have integrity & integrity is something that must come out naturally. If from the very beginning you’re missing that part of acquiring integrity you will ne’er have it to day or tomorrow or any given day at any given time.
Poetry is something you do with passion, with sincerity, with honesty, with genuine intention/s. If you write to impress & you achieve it then you are a writer. If you write to inspire, to touch lives, to celebrate the beauty in it then you are an artist.
Honesty in poetry doesn’t mean you need to have real settings, real characters, real events, etc. Honesty in poetry only require real emotions of the artist no more, no less, & yet, it is the hardest to achieve.
There are many who turn to poetry because they want to go with the increasing trend of people writing poetry, they want company to build confidence from people who can’t fault what they’re writing because people are nice. In poetry you don’t have ‘to prove’ something, but rather it is more on ‘to achieve’ something. If you get overwhelming praises for what you’ve written, get published anywhere else, get to win a contest then you have proven something. If you get, at least, one life touched & changed for what you’ve written then you have achieved something.
Poetry is a simple act of honesty that should be lived more than worked for. It is only made complicated when intentions are not set clear & not well understood.
At the end of the day, you’ll be grateful how it, still, feels good not able to know how good you are — It’s preserving humility in what you’re doing as an artist.
…smiles…
ah i like your seperation of artist and writer…
and achievement measured in touching lives for sure…
over the last 2 days you have given me much to think on kelvin
of that i am appreciative…
alright, i need beauty sleep…be back in the AM…
and tomorrow eve for OLN….
Sorry I missed this conversation Brian. What an intriguing topic, and so much insight offered here on what honesty in poetry might mean. I don’t have any insight on that, jusy find it interesting. To me though, and I’ll salt this with the fact that I am entriely weird, life has only three states: Love, the absence of love, and indifference to love. Rocket science is certainly an enterprising field to get into. As is neurosurgery or circus clown. And poetry is commendable as well. But the true thing that makes us indivdually separte from every other known creature is love. And so I agree with you. The heart is what’s honest or dishonest. And it is truly the only thing that matters. The afterlife will not find us all separated by earthly occupation, nor even how well we performed sectarian tasks on earth. we will be separated on the love we shared, or failed to share, while alive. Can poetry reflect that? I honestly don’t know.
Just to argue against myself: (1) sometimes lying is kinda fun. (2) sometimes unreliable or self-deceiving narrators are interesting to read because they add layers. (3) even if one wants to be virtuous, honesty needn’t be the highest virtue.
Honesty is not always the best policy. Sticks & stones may break one’s bones & words can also cause suicide. As far as truth goes, there’s only one absolute truth, of course, death. Poetic license leaves the door open for all subjects. It’s only a matter of personal taste & choice…