Last week when I met Mary and Gabriella in Paris, we went to the Musée d’Orsay to see a Van Gogh/Artaud exhibition.
At one point french writer Antonin Artaud mentions this invisible wall, located between what we feel and what we can do.
And I thought “Yes, I know this wall, I know exactly what he’s talking about – I’m facing it all the time – when I paint, write – whenever I get creative, this invisible barrier between what I feel/ what I really Want to express and what I Can express.
Does this sound familiar?
Are you facing this wall as well sometimes?
What are you doing to get through it?
Does it make you angry?
Or did you find a way to make peace with it?
I talked to Mary and Gabrielle a bit – and then made my way back through the crowds to see what Arnaud wrote of how he thinks is the best way to deal with this wall – but then – that’s just his personal opinion – so instead of telling you, I would rather love to throw out the “wall question” out there – and looking forward to the conversation…
–Claudia
smiles… happy monday
i loved the van gogh/artaud exhibit and even think about getting that book by artaud about van gogh – he said some pretty interesting things..
I love the Musée d’Orsay. There’s something satisfying about a gallery developed from an airport terminal developed from a railway station. The lighting is fabulous compared with the old Jeux de Paume, where most of the works came from. Did you see the decorative arts expo on the floor below the impressionists?
it is a wonderful building – and i loved the clock as well
unfortunately there was not so much time – so we focused on the van gogh exhibit – but def. hope to go back some day…
There are perhaps two walls there: one is about the limitations of language, that you can never quite find the right words to describe that exact feeling or thought, but a poet’s mission is to die (or live on and on) in the attempt. The other wall is about admitting your own thoughts and feelings to yourself and others, accepting all the different (dare I say unsavoury?) parts of yourself, all your weaknesses, all that makes you human and frail.
But for me the wall is between what I would like my life to be and what it actually is. I’m working hard now on surmounting this wall. After all, if the Berlin Wall came down, surely this one will…
the limitations of language – i agree – there never seem to be enough words or the right words to express things – and smiling on the comparison with the berlin wall… so very true – who would’ve thought that it would come down so quickly after all… there’s hope…
You speak my mind!
I suppose the wall for me is that, when I want to express something, there is always so much more in me than can be conveyed through words. It’s a bit like seeing a stunning sight and taking a picture of it, but the photograph can never fully depict the size, dimentionality, beauty to the fullest. We can but express a very minute part of what we feel. We are each so much more than the sum of our art!
yes we are so much more – and in a way i love the thought that we will maybe never be fully able to express everything in all possible dimensions…
That is so true in many peoples case,
it seems to me that words tend to be poor imitations of emotion, words are such square boxes. At least in poetry, if we get it right we can nuance the boxes to let us approach the emotions.
smiles… i think there’s magic in those boxes – i like the idea of nuance-ing them – and sometimes i just wanna tear them open and unpack – ha – smiles
maybe when poems communicate – we transcend the wall, that’s the proof of magic science always seeks ?
If there is a wall it is made to look impregnable by obfuscation, but in reality it is only paper thin. The point is not believe the lie of scenery and simple rip through what you think stands between you and what you want to create as an artist. There are no subjects to which art cannot be applied to rectify any anonymity of essence in something. In writing, yes, there are limitations such as context, syntax and meaning–one need be wary of these so as not to be obtuse in creating meaning. But wary does not mean afraid. Boundaries can be stretched, molded, crumpled into small stones which can be used to break the glass of clarity to produce a thing that is wonderful if only in its not having existed before one created it. >KB
you know…. i’m all for stretching boundaries and to approach those obstacles boldly… yes… i think – a key is to not be afraid…
Claudia, to be afraid is not to live but merely exist.
>KB
i wish i could say that i’m never afraid…
Everyone is afraid, it is not acting because your afraid that is wrong. You overcome your fear by breaking through and after rewalize that what you feared was insignificant. >KB
TEAR DOWN THE WALL!!
cheers to that!
smiles
Artaud is one of my favorite writers. This question has a particular meaning with reference to him because of his brushes with madness. But for most of us I think this has to do with growing pains as crafts-men-and-women. When you get to the point of feeling this way it means you’re growing as an artist. You’re learning that what you want to say always has a relationship not simply with the infinite potential of language but also with your skill level and personal experiences. Each act of writing is always a dance between these factors. You can never be good enough because the possibilities of language are too vast for one individual. But when you practice you get better and better: you get better at the dance between your skill set, the possibilities of language and that thing you want to bring to life in a poem.
i love the idea of seeing it as growing pains mark – and i too think that practicing and practicing makes the wall become thinner
I find that the more I write the less frustration I feel. If I can’t get to something, I see it either as a reflection of my own limitations or I question if I’m really clear on what I’m trying to say. I try and put it in the simplest language possible. Sometimes I find that I’m not sure what I want to say. When that happens I move on to something else.
i think sometimes it can be a healthy experience to be confronted with our limitations and then move on in spite of… i think moving on in spite of is a key as well.. i mean even van gogh didn’t always paint masterpieces… i find that comforting as well
Indeed I know this wall! I buzz with ideas for the children’s stories that I want to get down on paper, I even have the illustrations to go with my stories, but I get so stressed when I try to write that I give up. I used to write the stories just for my grandchildren and had no problem then, but trying to make them into a book that other children will want to read is where I hit my wall.
so maybe it also has to do with expectations as well..? our own’s and those of others…
I’ve never been afraid to speak my mind & express my feelings… But, I go through times when I don’t how to say it; I think that’s where my wall turns to brick. I ask myself the question, “how do I put that in a poem?”, a lot when I’m jotting down thoughts.
yes – happens to me as well – i so wanna say something and wonder how to pen it down…
That wall must have to do with the feeling not being authorized or qualified. And I am quite confident the way to tear the wall down is to face Christ.
what an interesting conversation…the wall has a couple meanings for me….i think i often have no problem saying what is on my mind…and pushing the envelope..i think what i am learning is when to balance that a bit more so the point is not lost…but then again, speaking with power and passion….
i hit a wall late last week though when i just couldnt scrape another bit off the bottom of the barrel….and needed a break…ha…
hope you enjoyed your break bri… and balance is a good point….ha..in both… life and writing…smiles
I’m most familiar with Artaud’s “Theatre and its Double” in which he wants the art to rage through its audience as a disease to wake them to reality. Seems Ginsberg’s “Howl” comes close to this as do many of the poems of feminist and ethnic writers with bellies full of fire. Alice Walker, Cherie Moraga, Anne Sexton, and Adrienne Rich come to mind. I’m more familiar with theatre and anything before 2000 to say more about that.
For my own walls I’d echo what MarinaSofia said above. And I have lots of belly fire which as writer and reader I often hesitate to ignite. I get halfway and hesitate on the follow through. I don’t want to preach, and peeling back skin is painful to both peeler and peelie. This group of readers–blogging poets–challenge me just right. Take this conversation for instance.
i think artaud understood the power of art – and he saw people crashing through that wall with might – van gogh certainly did a few times, not always though (in my personal opinion)
Agree. Though his own work–on film–is pretty scary. Poets often write alone, but he needed actors and artists to create his vision, endangering themselves. Van Gogh didn’t always go that far. I like even his milder work like his marvelous trees, his “sane” work.
Sometimes a wall may help me find my bearings, give me something to lean against or hide behind for a time, so maybe walls are not always unwelcome. One thing I believe for sure is that all walls are temporary.
they tend to move as well me thinks…
I like your notion of using the wall in a positive way instead of seeing it as a setback or hindrance. Truely, the walls only exist in our mind. I have found meditation to be of great benefit before I sit down to write; allowing me to put this “Mary” to the side, free of ego/attachment/expectation (hah!) and set the ideas/words free to have their own voice and trust what comes up.
Yes, I find putting my “Ronness” to the side can be quite tricky business…meditation helps and when that doesn’t work there is always wine. Sometimes I find trusting what comes up can lead to some embarrassingly bad poetry but that’s a risk I am willing to take for the sake of those moments when the ideas and language coalesce into a poem that works.
Tricky business for sure and worth seeking. I stopped drinking a little over a year ago; can’t even describe how much more if everything there is available. 😍
Seriously, I find drinking is like a moat, nothing can get in and I can’t get out…it’s worse than any wall I have come up against since I stopped.
Yes, there’s no romance in the bottle nor inspiration…it took me a while to not feel saturated ( I put myself in AA) there’s all kinds of us out there. If the writing feeds your heart & soul, do whatever it takes to stay clear, it’s worth it.
Just wondering, do you sometimes run into walls while creating photographs?
Hmm, all my images are taken with my iPhone. I’ve taken several on line classes and posted on specific sites for these images. I’ve done a 365 challenge and that has proven most rewarding. I don’t go crazy with the apps trying to balance the process and what I want to convey. My writing and images feed one another. And I have days where I need to simply be quiet. Not often easy for a Gemini.
I can relate to so many of the comments and thoughts conveyed here . . . then again sometimes I use the wall to prop myself up (sometimes we all need something to lean against). I think if my wall was to come fully down people wouldn’t like what they see/read . . . or maybe I wouldn’t. Thought provoking.
i think that could be – many people of a specific time didn’t like much what those writers and painters tried to express… thought provoking for sure..
When I write, there is no wall. In my daily life, the wall is made out of procrastinations, reservations, and doubt. Once in awhile, I get the urge to kick out a brick or two.
smiles… i’m all for kicking out bricks… smiles
thanks for the convo everyone…
grace has prepared a wonderful colorful poetics for later today…
looking forward to seeing you around…
Really enjoyed reading this ‘deep’ conversation. I think, aside from other barriers we put up, the invisible wall here and in art goes to the heart of the heart of creativity. All the above, tied with that unknown element which evades us all in our journey through life, is there when we need it or want it; It can be moved, whittled down, maneuvered, adjusted, even sometimes be made to disappear when we confidently discover more about ourselves and the world we live in. Being observers, historians, poets, interpreters with that innate desire to explain the unexplainable, describe the indescribable through our art forms…ultimately, we are searching for answers we will know only when they are illuminated by some divine source, I think….how else can I think of it, I ask myself…… something, defined here in very articulate ways, that is alive, movable and changes ….and connected directly to each of us individually and collectively, always there for our humanity and is a mystery; and I love a good mystery. Our quest to solve it is what sates us, challenges us, drives us, and finally leads us to …a better world??? You see, there is that wall again…smiles
smiles… i love a good mystery as well… and always in search for the right words or colors to explain the unexplainable….sounds familiar… and wonderful…smiles
All the time, When I want to say something to my hubby i cant say what i feel not even once and I have to go round the clock and I have to make my self say this that and finally I will come out. MY hubby always scolds me why do u put it to the last mint even though i say I cant express write it is like that with my Hubby so we end up fighting, The wall I have is made in the beginning itself so now it hard for me to break and make my self open and its have become very hard, Now my hubby has found tricks to get words out of my mouth he know why how what i do when i feel something or when i want to say something. He has understood me so very good some times he surprise me with his reactions and words………. How wonderful the wall is becoming thinner and thinner, even in my bad of bad moods he knows to make me feel better and get me down from my anger.
Day after day my love for him is growing more and not a one bit less, I am so happy to get a wonderful hubby like this……….. God has made my life the best place, after all the misunderstanding finally he has understood who I am and I am so grateful for that………….
smiles… i’m happy for you… that sounds wonderful… it feels good to be understood…
I agree that there is an impediment (Wall/Hurdle/whatever you call it) that is a part of, Essential (?) inherent in any creative project. But, I believe this isn’t an impediment only a goal to be crossed. It is that thing that asks us: “What am I trying to say/paint/sculpt etc.?”
Artaud was a genius! I think we (creative types) know what he is speaking to when he calls it a ‘Wall’. It is that blank canvas/page/stone etc. that faces us. I think it is that question we ask ourselves “What am I trying to say/paint/sculpt etc.?” The answer is always amazing!
yes – what am i trying to say – and – will i manage to express what i feel… a life-long challenge probably – but makes it all the more thrilling
I think the greatest wall we face is with us all the time–the belief that we CAN NOT do, be, feel, think, create. I guess life is just a battering of those self-imposed limitations. 70 years into it and still scaling!